Once More About the Vav Symbol and CRoadwarrior

Once again CRoadwarrior fails to explain his reasoning while attempting to bend everything to his altered reality.

Watch the first video I posted about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGsAQuZX128

I clearly stated that the vav symbol can be translated as an "or" as long as it maintains its meaning as an inclusive conjunction. He then gives an example of this, then says that he is correct and I am wrong. In this video I explain how this does not provide any evidence to support his delusion that the vav in Judges 11:31 can change from an "inclusive and" into an "exclusive or."

Clearly, CRoadwarrior not only does not understand how to translate from one word into another, he also shows how he cannot comprehend the meanings of conjunctions in the English language.

CRoadwarrior Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4aKZ3K6qN8

Screen shots of most of the conversation and what was posted on my youtube channel.
http://www.devpirates.com/OtherStuff/CRW/Part1.png
http://www.devpirates.com/OtherStuff/CRW/Part2.png
http://www.devpirates.com/OtherStuff/CRW/Part3.png
http://www.devpirates.com/OtherStuff/CRW/Part4.png
http://www.devpirates.com/OtherStuff/CRW/Part5.png
http://www.devpirates.com/OtherStuff/CRW/Part6.png
http://www.devpirates.com/OtherStuff/CRW/Me1.png
http://www.devpirates.com/OtherStuff/CRW/Me2.png

My apparently blocked response to CRoadwarriors distorted version of open discussion:
http://www.devpirates.com/OtherStuff/CRW/Response00.png
http://www.devpirates.com/OtherStuff/CRW/Response01.png

Hosea 1:7 ...I will not save them by bow or by sword or by war or by horses or by horsemen.
Are you kidding? This is exactly how I said the vav symbol could be translated as an "or": it can be translated as an "inclusive or."
This is an example of an "inclusive or" that does not change the meaning of the vav symbol. What I am asking is how an "inclusive and" can be translated as an "exclusive or."

Links!:
http://www.zionism-israel.com/hebrew/Hebrew_Alphabet_for_Dummies_6a.htm
http://www.returntogod.com/Pamphlets/alefbet.pdf
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/languages/yiddish/mendele/vol4.013
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/1065600.html
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Aleph-Bet/Vav/vav.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waw-consecutive

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• argument
• bible
• debate
• translation
• CRoadwarrior

[I21GenieLee]

do u know JESUS as LORD AND GOD?

[DavinCreed]

@I21GenieLee lol

[eqfan592]

Sorry Roadwarrior, but you've pretty much been pwned on this issue. Might as well give it up and admit your God is a blood thirsty ego maniac. At least then you'll finally be honest with yourself for once.

[quleughy]

Dude, you have issues. The source doesn't need to be a book to be a credible source, in fact websites can be better than books since they can be frequently updated to withstand the test of time.

I'll also point out that your other points are irrelevant. They are more of a plead on what the verse has to be in your mind rather than what it is. All that matters is what the verse itself actually translates as. You can't seem to give a definite answer on that. All you say is that it could be "or".

[DavinCreed]

Hosea 1:7

Just wondering, but if you order a cheeseburger and don't want mayonnaise, mustard, ketchup or onions... do you say, "I don't want mayo. I don't want mustard. I don't want ketchup. I don't want onions." or do you more reasonably say, "I don't want mayo or mustard or ketchup or onions?"

The latter does not give them the choice to remove whichever they feel like, it's letting them know that you don't want any of them. Learn English.

[DavinCreed]

If you think that passage lists alternatives, then I suggest you learn English.

Those "or"s are inclusively joining the particles together. You don't even understand English grammar and you want people to trust you about translating Hebrew into English?

Wow, be more ridiculous please. This is very hilarious.

[DavinCreed]

I have quoted several "a Hebrew grammar," but since you do not seem satisfied, give me a definition for "a Hebrew grammar."

I have done lots of reading, I suggest you do so as well so that you can finally explain why you chose to translate the vav symbol differently than any translator would.

[DavinCreed]

"It is an appeal to a fact in Hebrew grammar and linguistics that any honest and knowledgeable person will have to admit."

Is a thinly veiled ad hominem, because it's saying that any one that disagrees with you is ignorant or dishonest.

Saying that some dude on the internet says that it can be translated as an "or" here without explaining the reason why, is an appeal to authority.

Seriously, look it up.You can't even see a basic fallacy clearly pointed out to you.Then you say I don't know logic.

[CRoadwarrior]

And, I might add, the one example (there were others in the grammar book) actually supports my point. The text of Hosea 1:7 with the vav translated as "or" shows that the things were consecutive ALTERNATIVES, not things collectively joined by a conjunction ("and"). Again, I suggest you read up on Hebrew grammar from credible sources before trying to make arguments that don't truly hold up.

[CRoadwarrior]

So, once again, if you can't quote a Hebrew grammar to support your claim, I simply cannot take you seriously. I've seen what the Hebrew grammar has to say, and I know my point has validity. I suggest you get a copy of a Hebrew grammar or two and do some reading.

[CRoadwarrior]

You do not understand the most basic logic, let alone Hebrew grammar, which is why I mostly ignore you at this point, DavidCreed. There is no appeal to authority fallacy here, and there have been no ad hominems. You merely make those false claims. I quoted a Hebrew grammar to substantiate my point on Hebrew grammar, that the vav can be used and IS used in the Hebrew Bible in an alternative "this or that" sense.  I asked YOU to prove your point from a credible Hebrew grammar. You did not.