Christian Canonization Committee

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Nonprofits & Activism

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• jesus
• poofer

[KabaneTheChristian]

The church father Irenaeus identifies two main criteria for acceptance into the canon of scripture.

1. Apostolic authority (there were a few exceptions)

2. Conformity with the received tradition handed to the bishops, ultimately from the first bishops, the apostles of Jesus Christ.

[blasphemite]

3. what is with all of this eye witness account business. the earliest gospel is mark, who wasnt even an eye witness, and it was written 20 years after the crucifiction, and he gathered his information from biased people who were willing to go broke following jesus for 3 years

4. ok lots of problems with your statements here

[KabaneTheChristian]

3. Mark wrote based on the testimony of Peter. 20 years isn't that much at all. Of course there is bias. All history is biased.

4. Like?

[blasphemite]

i hit reply on your original statement and youtube put it somewhere else in here. if you care to find then you can reply, although it will probably not sway me just as i wont sway you.

[KabaneTheChristian]

1. Okay, each church building was led by a presbyter. There was one presbyter in that region who is called the bishop, who has been appointed by an apostle, and who ordains and leads all the other presbyters. All bishops trace their lineage back to the apostles. We have the lists proving this.

2. Because they appear too late to be reliable and have no connection to eyewitnesses.

[blasphemite]

first off... being a treasure seeker is irrelevent here, far as i can see. second, if i'm going to just believe in joseph smith preumptively, and i need evidence to sway me to the other side, then i'll believe his 'fanciful tales' automatically too. besides, your early church leaders had fanciful tales. paralyzed person walking because peter's shadow passed over him, god striking people dead left and right, and im sure some other stuff i'm not remembering atm

[blasphemite]

1. i'm well aware that when you have an organization, such as a church, there's going to be a leader. being the leader doesnt make you the bishop. youre saying the concept is there because these presbyters were the leaders, well, you havent said a single thing about their actual specific function other than that. i dont see any link btwn them and bishops.

2. "clearly invented"? by what standard do you say that? read the first couple chapters of johns gospel for "clearly invented"

[KabaneTheChristian]

2.Professor Craig Evans, who was one of the translators of the Gospel of Judas. Because they clearly invented their information about Jesus. They cannot trace it to eyewitnesses.

3. Peter forsook Jesus. I never said they were perfect, but they were the eyewitnesses to Jesus' life and Jesus entrusted His gospel to them. They passed it onto their successors, the bishops.

4. Lots of reasons, he was known to be a treasure-seeker and a creator of fanciful tales.

[KabaneTheChristian]

1. No...bishops were not invented centuries later. Ignatius of Antioch, a direct disciple of the apostle John and successor of Peter in Antioch, wrote of the bishops leading the city Churches, with the presbyters leading various parishes within that Church, and the deacons assisting the presbyters. Before Ignatius, they were all known as presbyters, but there was one "Arch-Presbyter" who led the City Church. He later became known as the bishop, but the concept is there.

[blasphemite]

1. how do we know this about the bishops? we take their word for it...? i dont know what youre talking about at all here, it sounds made up. i know there were deacons around a half century after jesus' death, but the bishops were implemented centuries later with rome's christianization

2. where do you get this info about the gnostics, and even if it's true, why does that negate their beliefs?

3. the apostles weren't perfect... they forsook jesus

4. why not just believe joe smith?

[KabaneTheChristian]

Because the Tradition of the Church runs through the bishops, who go in a straight line back to the apostles of Jesus Christ. We can trace the origin of the Gnostics to the second century, long after the death of the apostles. Same with the Mormons (1800s) and JWs.