Peter Schiff & Steven Keen on Dateline(Australia) - Part 1 of 2

The Biggest Bailout in US History

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[WilhelmDrake]

Without government, there is no market, or even money for that matter.

[edsonusa75]

@WilhelmDrake ///wrong , the government is a parasite of the free market and the only thing it does is hampering it through taxation. Also, the government in partnership with the Federal Reserve have the monopoly of the money. If you want real currency backed by gold or silver (intrinsic value) the government will put you in jail. Google Liberty dollar prison.

[WilhelmDrake]

@edsonusa75

That's funny. No currency regime without the power of taxation will be ever be universally accepted.

[edsonusa75]

@WilhelmDrake ///if that's not possible, it's because of the government.

[WilhelmDrake]

@edsonusa75

What about democracy?

[edsonusa75]

@WilhelmDrake ///"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49."

~Jefferson

[ElCapitan1985]

hmmm, me thinks they're on to something....Go PETER, GO! Force the medicine down their throats! Thanks to Australia for not being dicks to Peter like americans are. PEACE!

[ProspectorSam]

Sanity on the telly? Egads!

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

The one Austrian economist I really respect is Josef Steindl. If there is anyone to point towards a meeting between Post Keynesians, critical finance and Austrian theory its him.

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

Check out Hudson's essay The New Economic Archaeology of Debt, should be on his site. NEAers and Chartalists argue that before the existence of a medium of exchange there must be a monetary unit of account. Money is first and foremost a nominal balance sheet expression of assets and liabilities that gets measured in this standard unit of account. And there is no methodological indvidualist explanation for this MoA, its a product of social imagination, language, and authority.

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

The strength of the NEA is that it brings in concrete examples from the historical record not just to test deductive reasoning of economics but to construct economic theory. Murphy and Mises offer no history, rather they just extend the conjectural explanation that money originated from barter exchange to show that "time" matters. But time and history are not the same thing. Of course we don't live in a timeless, spaceless world like neoclassical theory posits, so what?

[ReasonAndLiberty]

@OgallalaKnowhow Have you read mises.org/daily/1333

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

I'm more familiar with the work of Michael Hudson and the neo-Chartalists. A good ebook on this is Credit and State Theories of Money: The Contributions of A. Mitchell Innes. But from what I can tell Graeber's work is definitely in the same mould; debt origins of money and all that. I haven't read his new book yet either, just some blog entries.

[ReasonAndLiberty]

@OgallalaKnowhow That's not what I meant by my question. I was asking whether the New Economics Archaeology is represented by Graeber.

I haven't read his entire book, just summaries

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

I mean Marx Capital 1, Chpt. 1, Sect. 1 where he shows (in his own words) "the derivation of value from an analysis of the equations by which every exchange-value is expressed." (From afterword to the German 2nd edition, 1873). Its the same logic as Menger's explanation: a standard of value emerges out of "every exchange-value."

David Graeber is interesting though. I'm not entirely sure, but doesn't he say that modern state money emerged out of tribal law and debts?

[ReasonAndLiberty]

@OgallalaKnowhow You mean to read Graeber's work?

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

Yes. And its as conjectural as Drake's claim that there is no such thing as money and markets without the state. If you read the first chapter of Marx's Capital Vol. 1 you will find an explanation for the emergence of money out of barter exchange that is exactly the same as Menger's. Just because an economist writes a self-contained logical explanation doesn't mean that it is historically OR logically accurate.

[ReasonAndLiberty]

@OgallalaKnowhow @OgallalaKnowhow Have you actually tried reading Menger?