TPMtv: After Torture, Part II

Your Daily Politics Video Blog: At a panel last week on justice in the post-Bush era, Scott Horton of Harper's explained to TPMtv why the Justice Department may not be the best venue to lead investigations of the Bush years. Also: Horton says members of the Obama transition team have asked him "penetrating questions" about his December cover story on how we should investigate -- and potentially prosecute -- Bush-era lawbreakers.

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[Hereticbooks]

Are you crazy? In my half century, I've never known torture as being acceptable. How can you say nothing illegal was done? Torture is illegal by the standards of international law.

[alnewberry]

Why should ANY U.S. politician have to consult a legal team to determine whether torture is legal or not? That alone should prove these guys unfit for office.

[punxsutawneybarney]

Gretchen, while I think your observation is insightful about the inhibition of torture prosecutions by complicity by Democrats (Pelosi, Reid) in Bush's crimes, and the fact that extraordinary renditions involving torture were conducted under Clinton (Gore said "Of course it's illegal! That s why it's a covert op!"),

I think you are being unnecessarily defeatist.

[punxsutawneybarney]

Glennman, mistreatment of civilians is a war crime under the Nuremberg Conventions, to which the USA is signatory and thus bound under Article 6 of the US Constitution.

You talk like a Nazi and you should be ashamed of yourself.

[keithwhitmer]

At the very least, Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Rice all lied. 1. About the evidence for going to war. There were never WMDs. 2. About torture. They said they did not torture. We now know they lied and that it was authorized. If Clinton can be impeached for lying why can't the Bush Admin? Torture is a war crime. They should be prosecuted. Is America the only nation that does not live up to these standards? How hypocritical is that?

[Glennman8]

The move for "change" is complete. Democrats hold all the cards now, mostly because of the politics of defeat which I outlined earlier. However, the President and his staff won't and should not be prosecuted. We don't need to cut off our nose to spite our face in this situation - it would just be stupidity to do so, and would accomplish nothing positive for the country. It would be pointless anyway because the President and congress are constitutionally protected from litigation.

[Glennman8]

Not to mention the fact that there are no laws governing this sort of thing in the U.S. I understand what you are saying and that your heart is in the right place. However this is not a simple issue. The one thing that runs rampant in this country today is a lack of trust between its people and the government. Politicians have capitalized on and fostered this distrust for political gain, especially liberal Democrats. They do it because it works. But let's not go overboard here.

[Glennman8]

Which international law do you refer to? And what constitutes torture? The word "torture" is not to be used lightly. The U.N. convention against torture defines torture such that just being confined in a prison could be deemed to be torture. The Geneva Convention defines that its rules only apply to soldiers in an armed conflict, a soldier being defined as one who wears the uniform representing a nation in armed conflict - so the Geneva Convention does not apply here. So what rules apply?

[Glennman8]

What a freaking circle jerk this bunch of lawyers is. Get over it, nothing illegal was done, and no one is going to be accused of anything. The President and Congress are protected from legal action such as is being discussed. Additionally, if the Obama administration tried to do this, it would fracture the country completely along political lines. It could cause a violent reaction of some kind.

[micahgee]

yea thats a pretty powerful statement!

[VigilantnotMilitant]

"We're going to discover when the investigation is concluded that the Department of Justice itself is a major crime scene." It's comforting to know that we're putting our best people to work on restoring America. It's a new day!