N.T. Wright on Debate about Homosexuality 4

Bishop Tom Wright wants the Church to have a reasonable debate on the topic of homosexuality in place of the current "shouting match." While acknowledging the complexity of the issue, he identifies the central question to be addressed, "What things about a person's humanity need to be celebrated and what need to be repented of--and how do you tell the difference?" A thoughtful discussion on this question must then be framed by an understanding of God's created order as revealed in Genesis 1 and 2, along with the historical knowledge that the Apostle Paul and his contemporaries in the ancient world would have been as aware of the reality of homosexuality as we are today.
Part of an interview by Dr. Tod Bolsinger, Senior Pastor of San Clemente Presbyterian Church, at the Pastors Retreat of the Los Ranchos Presbytery held at the Serra Retreat Center in Malibu, CA. Bishop N.T. Wright is the Bishop of Durham in the Church of England.

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[MarkHolgate]

he's not condemning it. It is a nuanced argument based on jesus statement "a man and a woman shall be joined together and they shall become one flesh". This is given to us as the basic picture of marriage/sex (the two are synonymous) Thus sex is sacred, marriage is sacred, and the parties are to be ... male and female. Simple. Any deviation from that and society becomes instable. Mind you, I think basic infidelity and lack of commitment are our culture's major sexual problems. Peace.

[4eversmiling1]

It's not that complex of an issue. Sin is a Sin. Pretty simple. It's just as wrong as lying, stealing, murdering. And whoever says, "I was born with this." I totally agree!! We have ALL been born with a sinful nature. But, that does not make sinning ok, or right.

[opivysoldier]

you read the book, the words of another and call it truth, never to speaking for ones self because you have no idea of what its to know ones self come to terms with fear. fear of difference fear of lost and death. stop crucifying the messengers and crucify your ego take the road less traveled take the road or enlightenment the multiverse speaks not in the name of christians or muslims or any other as but as one we are all one the things you judge people for are just a reflection of false self

[chukmaty]

NT Wright is brilliant. Paul was certainly aware of the sexual behavior of the Corinthian Church for example, and he accordingly discusses their acceptance of bisexuality and of multiple partners. It broke the hearts of the Christians in Corinth as Paul's condemnation of their behavior certainly seemed overwhelming. He softened his tone in the second epistle to that city, but he did not soften his belief.

[chukmaty]

Some moral questions "in the church" which is the body of Christ wedding heaven to earth, are decided through God's will. Often these moral proclamation are not conformed to our inborn inclinations or inclination which are evolved traits.

As CS Lewis said, I paraphrase, knowing Christ is the next step in our evolution. It stands to reason that this "next step" will conflict with previous steps which have taken place in nature.

[434missjames]

Ok the gay issue should never even be an issue. There should be no debate. Leave gay people alone. It is beyond rediculous. Focusing on inhumane treatment of people in the world should be what is focused on. Debate on how to help these people.

[fromthesestones]

@MarkHolgate -- Give a specific example of a society that has become unstable as a direct result of it's engagement in and/or it's acceptance of homosexual behavior, connecting this instability, if you can, directly with homosexuality.

Also can you give examples of other reasons societies have become unstable, and just exactly what is meant by the phrase "society becomes unstable"?

If you can't then you are just repeating a platitude.

[fromthesestones]

"When you don't have reason you just collapse into a sub-human morass of non-engagement"

I'm plagiarizing that like crazy the first chance I get.

[flizzleFlopper]

Bishop Wright gives a great argument, and I personally feel his frustration over a lack of real discussion--about a great many topics.

But in my experience people who don't reach their beliefs through reason and logic tend not to defend their beliefs with the same.

If you build a belief on emotion then you'll be emotional when you defend it...

[bearnurse1]

I've been to a PCUSA church and they definitely consider themselves part of the Reformed movement. They are members of the World Alliance of Reformed Churches

[temporaldisplacement]

All societys should be as rational as Hindu society is towards homosexuality.

That would be nice.