Neil deGrasse Tyson on "Intelligent Design" at Beyond Belief

This clip picks up where the one I'm responding to ("Gods retreat from cosmology") leaves off -- it is advisable that you watch that clip first. Both clips are from Neil deGrasse Tyson's presentation titled "The Perimeter of Ignorance" at Beyond Belief 2006. Among other things, Tyson asserts that the religiosity of some of history's greatest scientists and their willingness to invoke the philosophy of intelligent design limited the scope of their inquiry into the natural world, to the detriment of scientific progress in general.

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• astronomy
• god
• atheism
• science
• IntelligentDesign
• id
• religion
• intelligent
• design
• skepticism
• creationism
• commentary
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• newton
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[youngs1ncere]

Give it up already, you can't change or "fine-tune" the laws of nature without LARGELY (im talking disgustingly high percentiles) destroying the possibility of life. If you believe in a God of divine intervention in the laws of nature, you are delusional.

[Quinstol]

@youngs1ncere Hm, I don't see why a belief in god that set the laws of nature is delusional, at least not on the basis of what you've said here. The fact that life can't exist outside a very narrow range of values for certain fundamental parameters, at an intuitive level, seems like a good reason to posit a god/designer. I don't think it's a satisfactory or productive supposition -- to me it seems presumptuous and simplistic, but calling it delusional goes a bit too far in my opinion.

[gwf1213]

@Quinstol wouldnt a god be able to make life exist in any condition,

for example if god wanted he could make it possible for life to exists on the the sun.

[Quinstol]

Maybe, but that's like a paradox of omnipotence.

Could God create a rock so heavy he couldn't lift it? To what extent, if any, is a god bound by logic or the laws of the universe it creates? If life on the sun isn't impossible, it seems improbable; similarly, a universe capable of developing conscious life seems improbable. That we've observed the latter is taken by proponents of the strong anthropic principle as evidence of god/design.

I think it's a flawed argument but not quite delusional.

[zacharyrod1st]

A very interesting presentation. But there's one thing that gets to me. Regardless of ID, why would anyone assume that there are flaws in the design of human beings and other organisms. All things work according to the laws of nature no matter how it may seem. Perhaps it seems like a flaw because it fails human expectation, but we must remember that there are still many things about the laws of the universe that we still don't quite understand. There's a reason for everything.

[Quinstol]

@zacharyrod1st ID is the issue though, and unless we are talking about strictly deistic ID, I think it's fair to raise the issue of what would seem to be design "flaws" according to human intuition, values and expectations. Outside the issue of ID, when we call something "flawed", there is usually some implied context or perspective that makes that description defensible.

[cheetah100]

Neil deGrasse Tyson for President!

[pineapplepenumbra]

Well, I don't care what any "scientist" says, my holy book says different, so I'm going to ignore logic, reality and so called "facts" and believe that I want to believe.

[blindedby2monkeys]

watch out guys, this guy really is a badass

[megaflex48]

I love science and math, it requires facts and truth..

[puncheex]

@zacharyrod1st: It's the equivalent of the two guys trying to run from a bear. The first moans to the second that he doesn't think they can outrun the bear; the second wheezes back, "I don't think so either, but all I have to do is outrun you." Evolution does just that; incentive to improve stops when you're at the top of the heap.

[zacharyrod1st]

@puncheex I like this "good enough" syndrome you mention.

[puncheex]

@Hainan48: Who prescribes humility as a necessary part of science? It may be useful for civilization and living together, but science requires nothing but truth.

[puncheex]

@zacharyrod1st: The issue is that evolution, unlike a designer, doesn't work to a plan or with a goal in mind. That makes evolution's solutions sometimes seem short-sighted or impromptu. There's the "good enough" syndrome, that makes the voice box nerve 10 times longer than it needs to be, because it first appeared in fish. There's man's suboptimal eye, suboptimal erect body plan, auto-immune diseases. There's hemoglobin's affinity for carbon monoxide, much less cyanide. Etc.

[purpleletters]

pure out, flat and simple

[MrSpadeofAce]

believing in god is for the simple of mind

[Chacha5678]

watch out guys, we're dealing with a badass over here

[beansock]

Watch out, we've got a badass over here!