Nothing but the blood?

Christians claim that Jesus shedding his blood on the cross was a necessary condition for the their god to forgive sins. However, the biblical texts, especially the Hebrew scriptures, say a number of different things about how the biblical god forgives sins -- many of which have nothing to do with blood sacrifice in general or Jesus in particular. In fact, many of the passages dismiss such sacrifices as unnecessary. It seems Jesus' "sacrifice" may have been unnecessary.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Jesus
• blood
• atonement
• vicarious
• sin
• transgression
• forgiveness
• law
• grace
• righteousness
• propitiation
• offering
• sacrifice
• Temple
• animals
• bull
• goat
• lamb
• God
• altar
• precious
• Hebrews
• Jewish
• crucify
• crucifixion
• Christ
• Christian
• Bible
• David
• scriptures
• Judaism
• apologetics
• Romans
• Paul
• exegesis
• hermeneutics
• theology
• new
• old
• covenant
• cross
• pardon
• Proverbs
• Jehovah
• Yahweh
• Elohim
• Isaiah
• Ezekiel
• works
• merit
• prophet
• commandments
• obedience
• Calvinism
• Arminian
• predestination
• reprobate
• atheist
• agnostic
• justice
• repent

[pinkus44]

@profmth - this is beside the issue here, but on another post you mentioned that you liked john dominic crossan. i just got a book called "the birth of christianity" of amazon by him and am loving it so far. about 600 pages. it was under 10 bucks including the shipping and handling - used - but in great condition and hardback. check it out if you haven't seen it. as you said, there is always something you learn from this guy

[ProfMTH]

@pinkus44 Thanks. I will check it out. He's great.

[truthbknwn]

There are also verses that indicate that YHWH "visits the iniquity of the Fathers upon the children, and the children's children, to the 3rd and 4th generation" - Exo. 20:5 I have found not a few O.T. scriptures that make YHWH out to be a real devil! I don't think we're going to find God in this Bible.

[Emet5772]

@madeliinneee WRONG!! Does REAL Scripture teach us that someone other than ourseleves can atone for our sins by dying in our stead? (Deuteronomy 24:16)(Ezekiel 18:3-4)(Exodus 32:33) Is it true that without the shedding of BLOOD; there is no remission of sin? NO. (Leviticus 5:13) (Exodus 30:11-16)(Numbers 17:8-12). Is there an alternative to the SPECIFIC CARNAL sacrifice? YES.(Proverbs 16-6)(1Samuel 15:22)(Hosea 14:3) .You follow a man (Jeremiah 17:5) To be save (Ezekiel 18:27-28)

[KayBeeEee1983]

@madeliinneee What are you responding to?

[madeliinneee]

@KayBeeEee1983 Not quite, thankfully! Romans 6 "What shall we say then? Are we to go on sinning that grace may abound? By no means! For we are those who have died to sin. How can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

[cheagan]

@KayBeeEee1983 In the Mt passage I quoted above, Jesus makes it clear that the sin occurs not in the action, but in the intent of the heart. One needn't actually act in order to sin: "The heart is deceptive and wicked above all things; who can know it?"

[KayBeeEee1983]

@cheagan Romans 7:17-20 "As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

Justification for immoral behavior. Pure evil.

[KayBeeEee1983]

@cheagan Faith is manifested in good deeds and holy living. People need rituals to feel spiritual. Free will does exist. People who believe free will doesn't exist are people who don't want to take responsibility for their actions. They're immoral, evil people. Like Paul, they try to justify their lack of self-control. People who think that they don't have to be punished for their wrongdoings are also immoral and evil.

Deuteronomy 30:11 says you can be a good boy.

[cheagan]

@KayBeeEee1983 One's faith must have in its object something in the way of propitiation on one's behalf, or else it's simply spinning wheels, blowing smoke up your ass. Paul isn't making this up; he quotes none less than the prophet Isaiah when he says, "THERE IS NO ONE WHO SEEKS AFTER GOD; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD - NO, NOT ONE."  The point of the Law of Moses wasn't to show you how to be a good boy - it's to show you that you CANNOT be one. Jesus cleared it up in Mt 5:21-28.

[cheagan]

@KayBeeEee1983 How, exactly, does "faith in God" effect one's salvation? Water "ritually cleanses" souls? A mere mental assent of the existence of a Divine creator does not equal a saving faith. I think what you're describing has more to do with the unfortunate mistaking of Arminianism or Pelagianism for true Biblical Christian faith. What you have is the very pernicious and heretical (ana-)baptist adherence to the notion of "free will", which does not exist.