United States insists that the government's decision to invite Sudanese president Omar el Bashir to Friday's promulgation ceremony sent a wrong signal across the world in the war against impunity. Us ambassador to Kenya Michael Rannebeger says the decision did not augur well with efforts to bring to book suspects of Kenyas post election violence.
@2190g1 - I reckon you always want to keep your options open. I wouldn't want to be openly hostile to the leader of Africa's largest country & if he insisted on coming you really couldn't turn him back for all sorts of reasons. Remember when Mugabe flew to the Vatican for Ratzinger's inauguration with a European travel ban on him? Or when Mandela flew into Kenya on a stopover and refused to meet govt officials even for a few minutes? Methinks there's got to be some unwritten code somewhere.....
@surambaya And what would have been the net loss for Kibaki to refuse to "grudgingly" accept Bashir's request to be invited? In my opinion, Kibaki has lost more than he could have hoped to gain merely by inviting a person that has no value to him, neither now, nor anytime in future. Tell me what you think
@2190g1 - Agreed that there is no value to having Bashir in Kenya whilst at the same time we have a cessation in Southern Sudan waiting to happen this year. From a political strategy perspective, you are right on point. We cannot be seen to support the Northern Sudan regime while at the same time look to doing business with Southern Sudan now in the future. That being said, he likely asked to be invited and being the weak leaders that we are, we probably grudgingly agreed to have him over.
@drsugarcane To begin with your last point, Kenya clearly showed that it cannot have a local tribunal: the arguments and fights on tribal and other trivial bases would be too much... so that line is closed.
About avoidance of Global Courts and Govts, I agree but what can Africa do on its own at present without global support? If we cannot lose an election willingly, without foreign observers, tell me can we run a court process fairly on such an emotive issue???
@surambaya I agree fully about presumed innocence until guilt is proven. But given his elusiveness, how can his innocence be proved. As we speak, the Janjaweed are still killing the poor Southerners.
I also agree that it is not Kenya's role to arrest Bashir. But I am sure you agree that he was not invited to Kenya because he would bring any value. He was invited to spite the ICC, and to support the AU, which has leaders who are afraid of the same process being done to them. See my points??
@2190g1 - Without looking to defend him, what happened to innocent until proven guilty. That being said, my position is that Kenya should not involve itself in taking its neighbors leaders hostage. We are not the ones who want him; it's the ICC. Remember that as we speak, the CIA is probably funding some soon to be dictator somewhere the same way they funded the Taliban and Saddam Hussein.
@2190g1 Bashir must answer for his crimes if he committed any. I'm against this New World Order where anybody can be hauled to a Global Court. I'm against Global government. Let people answer to their own judicial systems in their own sovereign lands but this Antichrist Global Court system I'm against. If warrants of arrest can be issued against sitting presidents what about ordinary folk? We need an independent local tribunal in Kenya for the PEV.
@drsugarcane You feel it is OK for Bashir to go scot-free in the murder of the >300,000 Southerners?
And when you ask where are the real Africans, perhaps it would help if you could name a few of those Africans that are "real", and let us know what they have done for the good of the world
@2190g1 - I reckon you always want to keep your options open. I wouldn't want to be openly hostile to the leader of Africa's largest country & if he insisted on coming you really couldn't turn him back for all sorts of reasons. Remember when Mugabe flew to the Vatican for Ratzinger's inauguration with a European travel ban on him? Or when Mandela flew into Kenya on a stopover and refused to meet govt officials even for a few minutes? Methinks there's got to be some unwritten code somewhere.....
surambaya 1 year ago
@surambaya And what would have been the net loss for Kibaki to refuse to "grudgingly" accept Bashir's request to be invited? In my opinion, Kibaki has lost more than he could have hoped to gain merely by inviting a person that has no value to him, neither now, nor anytime in future. Tell me what you think
2190g1 1 year ago
@2190g1 - Oh, I mean a cessation referendum waiting to happen next year in 2011.
surambaya 1 year ago
@2190g1 - Agreed that there is no value to having Bashir in Kenya whilst at the same time we have a cessation in Southern Sudan waiting to happen this year. From a political strategy perspective, you are right on point. We cannot be seen to support the Northern Sudan regime while at the same time look to doing business with Southern Sudan now in the future. That being said, he likely asked to be invited and being the weak leaders that we are, we probably grudgingly agreed to have him over.
surambaya 1 year ago
@drsugarcane To begin with your last point, Kenya clearly showed that it cannot have a local tribunal: the arguments and fights on tribal and other trivial bases would be too much... so that line is closed.
About avoidance of Global Courts and Govts, I agree but what can Africa do on its own at present without global support? If we cannot lose an election willingly, without foreign observers, tell me can we run a court process fairly on such an emotive issue???
2190g1 1 year ago
@surambaya I agree fully about presumed innocence until guilt is proven. But given his elusiveness, how can his innocence be proved. As we speak, the Janjaweed are still killing the poor Southerners.
I also agree that it is not Kenya's role to arrest Bashir. But I am sure you agree that he was not invited to Kenya because he would bring any value. He was invited to spite the ICC, and to support the AU, which has leaders who are afraid of the same process being done to them. See my points??
2190g1 1 year ago
@2190g1 - Without looking to defend him, what happened to innocent until proven guilty. That being said, my position is that Kenya should not involve itself in taking its neighbors leaders hostage. We are not the ones who want him; it's the ICC. Remember that as we speak, the CIA is probably funding some soon to be dictator somewhere the same way they funded the Taliban and Saddam Hussein.
surambaya 1 year ago
@2190g1 Bashir must answer for his crimes if he committed any. I'm against this New World Order where anybody can be hauled to a Global Court. I'm against Global government. Let people answer to their own judicial systems in their own sovereign lands but this Antichrist Global Court system I'm against. If warrants of arrest can be issued against sitting presidents what about ordinary folk? We need an independent local tribunal in Kenya for the PEV.
drsugarcane 1 year ago
@drsugarcane You feel it is OK for Bashir to go scot-free in the murder of the >300,000 Southerners?
And when you ask where are the real Africans, perhaps it would help if you could name a few of those Africans that are "real", and let us know what they have done for the good of the world
2190g1 1 year ago
@surambaya You feel nothing about the >300,000 people he has killed in the South??
2190g1 1 year ago