when the saints

song "when the saints" by sara groves. thanks to everyone involved with Three Angels Orphanage!

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• three
• angels
• orphanage
• when
• the
• saints
• sara
• groves

[nigelium]

Is not this song simply amazing!?

[lejulie2002]

I love this song!

[wildbagel2]

@Drama91J The last line, "I see the man of sorrows" may be a reference to Jesus himself. The "world on his shoulders" seems to imply His taking of our sin onto Himself on the cross. There also may be shades of Jesus's teaching on burdens and taking up His cross.

[wildbagel2]

@Drama91J "I see the young missionary..." would appear to refer to the missionaries who were killed in Ecuador in the 50's (see Wikipedia entry for Operation Auca). "I see the long hard shadows" mentions Calcutta, which is where Mother Teresa lived and worked (hence the "nuns" line). I am not sure of the next line ("I see the young girl huddled"), but it seems to be a general reference to sexual slavery of children, which is a real problem in many countries around the world.

[Drama91J]

who were the other saints she described after Harriet Tubman in the Underground railroad!!!

[jaynnicci]

totally amazing..... I want to be one of those saints!

[IliveBcauseOfJC]

...

However, if we were to disagree with Hitler on the mere basis that we believed it was not "good", that would not be a meaningful or justified argument because Hitler could simply respond saying, "Well I believe that it is good". Who is justified? Both sides have the argument, "because we said so". If, however, one was to disagree with Hitler on the basis that "God said so", you would have a *meaningful* basis. This is becuase it is coming from something greater than ourselves.

[IliveBcauseOfJC]

...

And the crucial point is that both persons' claims are equally meaningful due to the fact they they are both derived from mankind. And the fact that they are equally meaningful combined with the fact that they are mutually exclusive means that they are really just equally meaningless. For example: Hitler may have believed that ruthlessly murdering Jews was "good" yet you and I both disagree.

...

[IliveBcauseOfJC]

...

The reason that any *meaningful* basis for what is good has to be something higher than ourselves ("ourselves" meaning mankind) is becuase if we were to look for this basis from ourselves it would not be meaningful. If one person says one thing is "good" and someone else says it is not "good"; then who is right? Both may claim to be right but the fact remains that either one is right and the other is wrong or they are both wrong...

[IliveBcauseOfJC]

...

You of course don't hold this same basis for what is "good". This is an important difference (please tell me if you disagree). So the next question becomes: which basis for what is good is true? I have thought about this question a lot and have found that the only way one can find a *meaningful* basis for what "good" is, is to find that basis in something higher than ourselves; and, as I believe, this thing higher than ourselves is God.

[IliveBcauseOfJC]

Just making sure, the next question becomes: *what is good?* This seems to be a necessary question in order to decide who "good" people are or what constitutes a "good" deed.

I know that many believe that what is "good" is simply evident to all human beings. But this claim is proved false by the very fact that you and I disagree on what is "good". I believe that the one true God is alone good and so everything that is truly "good" is derived from God Himself.

[nyomythus]

@IliveBcauseOfJC Yeah, good people will be good with or without religion.