Lawes: Fantasia for 6 viols - Turner viols of Orpheon

Présentation des quatres violes Turner de la collection Orpheon. visible sur le site www.orpheon.org .
Vous écoutez l'Orpheon consort dans une fantaisie à six violes de William Lawes.

Presentation of the four Turner violas da gamba of the Orpheon Foundation. Visible on www.orpheon.org .
You are listening a fantasia for six viols written by William Lawes and played by the Orpheon consort.

Category:

Music

Tags:

• Orpheon
• consort
• William
• Lawes
• José
• Vazquez
• Turner
• viola
• da
• gamba
• viole
• de
• gambe
• fantaisie

[MELONMOVIES]

I'm just loving the way that everyones comment is with proper English and how people are having proper discussions without making a scene. You don't usually find that on YouTube... :)

[aelfricbetera]

wonderful sound;.. this is true musicianship...viols make great listening..

[peteacher52]

Very interesting and informative. So Turner must have been to the gamba family what Gagliano and Gofriller were to violas and cellos.

I think the sound of the gambas compared to the violin family is rather like the comparison between reed and flue pipes in an organ.

[DarkwingScooter]

@wcbroccoli *Edit* Not Jesu meine Freude" (apologies) I should say Lobet den Herrn.

[DarkwingScooter]

@wcbroccoli "would disagree with your flautist"

The E-flat major Sonata has long been identified with C.P.E Bach precisely on stylistic grounds even though it sounds wholly out of place in C.P.E's oevre.

Recently it has been admitted into J.S's work list, largely on the grounds of excluding the g minor, which is very similar.

With watch?v=aiEflPws0RI you may have a point, but is a thinly stretched one.

Spare me the titles, I don't take kindly to name dropping, good reasoning will suffice.

[DarkwingScooter]

@wcbroccoli Here is an example of Gombert's "Motet Style":

watch?v=dTGfkPvH_nU

And an extract from the New Grove identifying your "Motet Style" with Madrigalisms (Article on Monteverdi 6):

"To a modern observer the most obvious use by Monteverdi of imitationo doubt occurs in his Missa a 6 voci ... sv205 (1610) based on points of imitation, in the other, modern sense, drawn from Gombert’s motet In illo tempore... written in an austere, archaic style, avoiding madrigalisms or word-painting... "

[DarkwingScooter]

@wcbroccoli More on the motet style: there is no entry on this in the New Grove or anywhere else I can find, it is a very loose term related to Gombert).

The big problem is that even among Bach's own motet's there is only one that can be seen as being mostly in this style (Jesu Meine Freude), and this one is by far the most modern of the Motets. Calling the 6-part Ricercar Motet-like is actually apt, but it is not in "Motet style".

You seem completely obsessed with classifying things.

[DarkwingScooter]

@wcbroccoli So as an example of motet-like characteristics of a Bach ricercar you cite a Bach Kantata? Motet style is identified with Gombert, a style that is very much prima prattica.

I agree that this Kantata is in the Gombert style.

In Bach's time the term "Motet style" is meaningless for distinguishing between old and new practice.

My trusty Grove's (1954) gives the definition of diminution (3) as equivalent to "division". How would you describe Fux's counterpoint if not as divisions?

[wcbroccoli]

@DarkwingScooter "Diminution counterpoint"? How about "augmentation counterpoint"? .Do you even understand the terms you use?

You naively assume anything with "motet" in the title represents what musicologists call "motet style." I already explained the term elsewhere in my comments.

C. Wolff and I already identified the 6-part Ricercar, with "its patently motet-like characfteristcs", as an example. Here's a vocal example:

watch?v=vn15Ib-mgRw&feature=re­lated

[wcbroccoli]

@DarkwingScooter Bach's estate included copies of works by Palestrina, as well as works of other early masters & contemporaries of Bach. I worked thru an annotated edition of Gradus ad Parnassum. The galant triplets and apoggiaturas in the 3-part Ricercar don't fit the examples in Gradus. But the entire 6-part Ricercar, with "its patently motet-like characteristics" [C.Wolff], does.

Stile antico and prima pratica. The chordal triplets are not at the vocal style of "Gradus" or "Praeneste".

[wcbroccoli]

@DarkwingScooter "The 3rd movement of the sonata [from M.O.] stresses even more [than the 3-part Ricercar] the references to this characteristic style of the Berlin school in the 1740s and 1750s. Here we have the only pieces of Bach in which he uses the delicate expressive musical language of the generation of his sons...These sylistic elements of the Empfindsamkeit...manifest how well the old capellmeister understood the music of the young Berlin court musicians."-C. Wolff