Miracles and morals

What do they have to do with each other?

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Category:

Comedy

Tags:

• atheist
• atheism
• religion
• Jesus
• miracles
• morals

[ThisFlat]

@Enzo012 who needs a book to tell them right from wrong? What ever happened to common sense?

[chestybondrod]

I agree with a lot of what Pat says he has got the right idea.

[DogmasDemise]

@natenation As for your question of when is rape "good", have you ever heard of a hypothetical "mutual" rape when the 2 partners are forced by a third party on threat of death? Now dying is certainly worse than engaging in unwanted sex. Since neither partners truly consent it still qualifies as rape.

Your other question, when is slavery good? When your God says so apparently. :P So much for absolute morals in Christianity. The only absolute is really "God says so."

[DogmasDemise]

@natenation I believe there are actions with consequences that harm the prosperity of individuals and society as whole. You don't need a God to explain that, anymore than you need a God to explain why a capitalist economy (in any form, regulated or free) is superior to a communist one. The consequences speak for themselves.

You don't need a God to enforce it either, even the corrupt police force is proven to do a better job than threats of Hell.

[natenation]

You are giving silly examples. I am not talking about lying to someone if they ask if they look fat.

Killing someone who is murdering dozens or hundreds of people, is not the same as murder. That is an act driven by the desire to protect those innocent people from being slaughtered. There is a difference. If I punch someone who is about to shoot another person, that is not wrong.

[natenation]

@Thebartone9119 If you're an atheist, then at least you're being honest. But you really believe there are no moral absolutes? I find that scary. There are clear moral absolutes that all sane good people hold to.

When is the rape of a woman (or man) ever good? When is the murder of an innocent person ever good? When is the abuse of a child ever good? When is slavery ever good? When is the mass slaughter of people based on religion, race, ect, ever good? These are clear absolutes. You are giving

[theBartone9119]

@natenation I mean if someone said it's NEVER right to cause harm to another human being, I would call them crazy. What about a human who is causing harm to a hundred human beings? Would it not be moral to harm that human to prevent the suffering of a hundred other innocent ones who did nothing wrong? I could go on forever with examples, but absolute morals are not safe because there are situations where breaking those codes, is actually more moral in the long run than sticking with them.

[theBartone9119]

@natenation You act like moral absolutes are a good thing, they are not. What if someone said "It is always wrong to tell a lie" but someone else asks you "Do I look fat? If I'm fat then the world doesn't deserve to exist, I will destroy it in a nuclear holocaust"?

Should you tell him "to be honest, you look fat" simply because lying is wrong? Or should you tell him "You are as thin as can be, I would love to have your figure" to save the world?

Moral absolutes don't exist among sane people.

[theBartone9119]

@natenation What if someone said "Anything that prevents life is wrong" as a moral absolute? This would mean condoms would be considered morally wrong, even though they prevent STD's and children being born that wouldn't grow up in a financially stable environment. Anyone who claims "X" is wrong no matter what is a lunatic, there are always ways were "X" could be applied that would actually produce positive results. Is stealing always wrong? What if it was stolen from you first? Understand now?

[theBartone9119]

@natenation There are no absolute morals.

I mean, is it immoral to punch someone in the face if they didn't hit you or even say a word to you? Not if they are raping someone and your punch would prevent it...

Is it absolutely wrong to cut a baby's stomach open with a blade? Not if a doctor is performing a surgery that would save the baby's life...

It's clear that there are no moral absolutes, there are always exceptions. Moral absolutes are dangerous.

[natenation]

That would mean that slavery was not wrong, since it was part of the culture and socially acceptable. People and culture can be wrong.

I don't mind if people are atheist, but you can't hold to moral absolutes if you are. You can have a set of morals, but none are absolute.

As for people who did wrong but who are TRULY sorry and ashamed of what they did and ask for forgiveness, they are forgiven. Forgiveness is a good thing. Dont we teach childern to forgive? Everyone makes mistakes.

[natenation]

No it's not false. This is where atheists are dishonest. If their is no God given absolute morals that we all should hold to, then morals are all relative. Who's morals do we determine to be absolute? Accepting one persons, or one culture, or ones leaders as determining moral absolutes would just be bias.

If you say it should be determined by culture or popular opinion, I find that scary. That would mean Nazi Germany was not wrong, that was their culture and what they believed. That would mea