@Terry8150 Terry, Charles Stanley also invented a Protestant Purgatory when he saw that the Lord's servant with one talent, Matt. 25, was to be tossed into the outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. This is not hell, says Charles in his wisdom, as the outer darkness is actually in heaven, outside the circle of the righteous, and those in this outer darkness are there for an unknown period, until their works are burned up - another purgatory. God bless, Mick
@christianissues Mick all I have said is application of bible truth.Saved soul's don't end up in hell.That totally contradicts the grace of God that saves.Your misunderstanding the place of judgment in our walk.To tell believers they could go to hell if they don't measure up to a holy walk subverts the soul of the believer,adds works to the grace of God to save,and robs potentially a full reward for the believer.In a great house are vessels unto honor and some unto dishonor.But all in the house.
@Terry8150 Terry, I have shown you plainly where God says that saved souls can end up in hell but, in desperation, you have invented a Protestant Purgatory to sustain your belief. With sincere respect Terry, I can't debate with a person who presents such an argument. It would be pointless to show you other clear scriptures. God bless, Mick
@christianissues Hate to hear this Mick,Still lots to see.My position is that the house of God is judged apart from the world. We are told to (behave) ourselves (in) the church of the living God.1Tim.3:15 Then Paul says that (in) a great house there are vessels unto honor and some unto dishonor. 2 Tim. 2:20 That dishonor part is what I'm talking about. No where in scripture does it say a saved by grace believer, ever, potentially gets re tossed back into hell. But, we do get judged. God bless.
@christianissues Mick, your right.The believer is admonished to (be holy for for I am holy.) But that is not a condition in order to be saved.Salvation is by grace alone. But, to be admonished to walk holy, to walk in the Spirit, is exactly why the house of God is judged first, separate from when the world gets judge.There are zero passages which say a saved man can be lost. God does not contradict grace alone that saves in his word. That's why we have to place works into context of our walk.
@Terry8150 Terry my friend, if you are right then the clear errors in you explanation don't help your case in any way. You will have to come up with far better arguments to convince me. Jesus said to come like a child so if you do that and take what is said at face value then you will see that a holy walk is necessary for salvation. The Spirit gives us the power to be fully righteous (Rom 8:4). I know many, many passages which prove that a saved man can be lost. God bless, Mick.
@christianissues I have also said that it is the believer's works that are exposed by fire and that being hurt by the second death is not the believer passing through the lake of fire.The word (hurt) does not mean the believer passes through the lake of fire.The injury which is a second death experience, eliminates the believer from sharing in the glory of God. That's what I believe it means to suffer loss. This does not contradict Jesus. This isn't a Catholic Purgatory doctrine. It's Bible.
@christianissues Mick,love you and your desire to help believers see the problem with judgment of our walk if it is contrary to the will and word of God. But your conclusion speaks against grace alone that saves, because it says we have something to do with the outcome of God's grace when it comes to being saved from a devil's hell. My position says that the believer's walk is going to be judged, even potentially with terror, yet as Paul said we (shall be saved). continued ...
@Terry8150 Terry, with respect, how can you even consider that a sinning believer will pass through the lake of fire (the place of the second death), get singed a bit, and then proceed to heaven? I am amazed that you willing contradict Jesus with this explanation. Is this the Catholic Purgatory? Are they right after all? God bless mate, Mick.
@Terry8150 Terry, Charles Stanley also invented a Protestant Purgatory when he saw that the Lord's servant with one talent, Matt. 25, was to be tossed into the outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. This is not hell, says Charles in his wisdom, as the outer darkness is actually in heaven, outside the circle of the righteous, and those in this outer darkness are there for an unknown period, until their works are burned up - another purgatory. God bless, Mick
christianissues 3 months ago
@christianissues Mick all I have said is application of bible truth.Saved soul's don't end up in hell.That totally contradicts the grace of God that saves.Your misunderstanding the place of judgment in our walk.To tell believers they could go to hell if they don't measure up to a holy walk subverts the soul of the believer,adds works to the grace of God to save,and robs potentially a full reward for the believer.In a great house are vessels unto honor and some unto dishonor.But all in the house.
Terry8150 3 months ago
@Terry8150 Terry, I have shown you plainly where God says that saved souls can end up in hell but, in desperation, you have invented a Protestant Purgatory to sustain your belief. With sincere respect Terry, I can't debate with a person who presents such an argument. It would be pointless to show you other clear scriptures. God bless, Mick
christianissues 3 months ago
@christianissues Hate to hear this Mick,Still lots to see.My position is that the house of God is judged apart from the world. We are told to (behave) ourselves (in) the church of the living God.1Tim.3:15 Then Paul says that (in) a great house there are vessels unto honor and some unto dishonor. 2 Tim. 2:20 That dishonor part is what I'm talking about. No where in scripture does it say a saved by grace believer, ever, potentially gets re tossed back into hell. But, we do get judged. God bless.
Terry8150 3 months ago
@Terry8150 Hello Terry. I think we are going in circles Terry so we may as well drop the conversation. May the Lord bless and keep you. Mick
christianissues 3 months ago
@christianissues Mick, your right.The believer is admonished to (be holy for for I am holy.) But that is not a condition in order to be saved.Salvation is by grace alone. But, to be admonished to walk holy, to walk in the Spirit, is exactly why the house of God is judged first, separate from when the world gets judge.There are zero passages which say a saved man can be lost. God does not contradict grace alone that saves in his word. That's why we have to place works into context of our walk.
Terry8150 3 months ago
@Terry8150 Terry my friend, if you are right then the clear errors in you explanation don't help your case in any way. You will have to come up with far better arguments to convince me. Jesus said to come like a child so if you do that and take what is said at face value then you will see that a holy walk is necessary for salvation. The Spirit gives us the power to be fully righteous (Rom 8:4). I know many, many passages which prove that a saved man can be lost. God bless, Mick.
christianissues 3 months ago
@christianissues I have also said that it is the believer's works that are exposed by fire and that being hurt by the second death is not the believer passing through the lake of fire.The word (hurt) does not mean the believer passes through the lake of fire.The injury which is a second death experience, eliminates the believer from sharing in the glory of God. That's what I believe it means to suffer loss. This does not contradict Jesus. This isn't a Catholic Purgatory doctrine. It's Bible.
Terry8150 3 months ago
@christianissues Mick,love you and your desire to help believers see the problem with judgment of our walk if it is contrary to the will and word of God. But your conclusion speaks against grace alone that saves, because it says we have something to do with the outcome of God's grace when it comes to being saved from a devil's hell. My position says that the believer's walk is going to be judged, even potentially with terror, yet as Paul said we (shall be saved). continued ...
Terry8150 3 months ago
@Terry8150 Terry, with respect, how can you even consider that a sinning believer will pass through the lake of fire (the place of the second death), get singed a bit, and then proceed to heaven? I am amazed that you willing contradict Jesus with this explanation. Is this the Catholic Purgatory? Are they right after all? God bless mate, Mick.
christianissues 3 months ago