SeaBird－Derby Stakes

1965 EpsomDerby シーバード

Category:

Sports

Tags:

• 競馬
• Horse
• SeaBird
• Derby
• keiba
• シーバード

[francilius]

A supreme champion. Easily the greatest middle distance performer I have ever seen.

[Sonnyboyx2]

a rating of 145 makes Sea Bird ll the greatest racehorse ever

[tigerarmyrule]

@Sonnyboyx2 if anything Timeform would be reluctant to place a French horse ahead of tudor minstrel and Brigadier Gerard. Sea Bird is rated so high because he coasted to victory in great faces against top field while being ridden hands and heels and wandering about as if he was out for a stroll. Secretaria or Sea Bird? Pele or Maradona? Bird or Jordan? who honestly knows but probably they were similar.

[rcschumann]

@Sonnyboyx2 I'd like to change the last part of my previous comment. It's hard to say who's the greatest TB of all time - it's all a matter of opinion. Some Americans claim that Citation, Kelso, or Dr. Fager are the best. Some Europeans favor Nijinsky II above any other horse (I feel he was the best to race in Europe/UK). Sea Bird was certainly a giant, and since this is a video of him, I will just sit back and enjoy his fantastic talent.

[rcschumann]

@Sonnyboyx2 There's something wrong if they would place an overrated racemare like Zenyatta at the top. She beat nothing but much smaller fillies to win 18 of her races, and then she beat a turf horse to win no.19. She lost her last race to a decent horse, but one who doesn't compare with the likes of Tiznow and Ghostzapper from this century. Rachel Alexandra beat stronger male fields, not to mention Goldikova. Timeform didn't place Zenyatta above Sea Bird did they? 139 BSF Sec is the best.

[Sonnyboyx2]

@rcschumann your talking rubbish, everything is taken into consideration when a horses official rating is compiled and to claim Timeform assesors are reluctent to place a US horse above a European is nothing but sour grapes. They placed Zenyatta at the top of the world rankings for over 2yrs. Secratariat was an incredible horse no doubt but Sea Bird II was the greatest of all time.

[rcschumann]

@Sonnyboyx2 If you convert Secretariat's 139 Beyer Speed Figure (the highest ever) to Timeform, he would get around a 151. The 144 he received was by a European publication that would be reluctant to place him above a European horse. But the fact is, what Secretariat did at races like Preakness, Belmont and Canadian International (turf) deserves a much higher rating - especially Belmont!

[bgardiner2000]

@DanielSong39 151-153 would have been his projected Timeform rating as rscarbro correctly points out. However, timeform gave him a 144 rating? So it appears that they changed the rules to accommodate Secretariat's achievements? IMO these ratings are peak performance ratings (more or less). And on this basis alone you could not rate Seabird above Secretariat.

[ThefightingCelt]

@DanielSong39 Watch Pathes colour film where you will see SB;s magnificent acceleration in its full glory. Sea Bird's trainer was not interested in breaking time records. He wanted Sea Bird to win his races and as comfortably as possible, which he did- that was the only consideration. This was a horse that had gears to burn and whom Pat Glennon ( his jockey ) said never used half of them. He was a monster. Secretariat would never have beaten Sea Bird on turf.

[rscarbro100]

@ThefightingCelt Not true. You add a Beyer speed rating 12 to 14 points to get to a Timeform rating. 139 Beyer equals 151 or 153 Tiemform. Thats the 'Facts'.

[DanielSong39]

Sea Bird is obviously very good and beats large fields, but I just don't see that explosiveness that would warrant the 145 Timeform rating.

By this standard Secretariat's Belmont would be a 160 or so.

[bgardiner2000]

@ThefightingCelt Sounds like a more reasonable assessment.