Christopher Hitchens Moral Challenge to the god fearing religious folks

Christopher Hitchens Moral Challenge to the god fearing religious folks

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[alexmcvey]

Well, I know an act that a believer can do that a non-believer can't - get saved, lol.

An "anti-theist" is also incapable of giving thanks to Whom it is due.

[Anti1Theist]

Sorry "get saved" is not a moral action or statement.

[mammers11]

No, he's saying that there is nothing inherently religious about moral behavior or moral sentiments. In other words, of all the moral things that religious people could plausibly do and think, they could just as plausibly be done or thought by non-believers. But, there ARE evil things that a religious person could plausibly do or think that a non-believer could not plausibly do or think. In other words, morally: religion = atheism + several unique wicked concepts.

[dman519]

@saugustus1 I prefer to call them sheep.

[saugustus1]

@dman519 truth. those rats...

[dman519]

@saugustus1 haha. its not amazing that religious people suspend logic. they do it everyday.

[dman519]

@alexmcvey "give thanks to Whom it is due." so many assumptions in that one statement. 1. that god exists 2. that you need to thank god for something 3. that thanking someone is a moral action. (its nice to do, but its not immoral if you don't thank someone, just rude.)

[edheldude]

@barifkin31 I don't think anyone's claiming that unjustified beliefs couldn't lead to good or utilitarian outcomes - but that wasn't Hitchens' point in his challenge.

[edheldude]

@comeonfolks As Sam Harris puts it: Values reduce to facts about the well-being of conscious creatures.

Well-being is a very plastic concept bound to change as our understanding and technology changes but health is a similar concept and we have no trouble handling that. Wickedness is not a thing but a concept, and I'm sure you understand that without resorting to puerility.

[comeonfolks]

Hitchens needs to clarify. By science, what is moral? What is wicked, in terms of scientific evidence. If I am going to distinguish between good and wicked, then I need to know the scientific difference between the two. Surely, if wicked exists, there is scientific data that I could use to base my answer on. Of course, if there is no scientific data, presumably wicked does not exists (if wicked did exist, surely sciece would have discovered it by now) which this question would be irrational.

[saugustus1]

its amazing how many religious people suspend their logic on this issue

[viridismonasteriense]

@beerbuddy So religion makes you hurt yourself for no reason whatsoever. But we all knew that already. The sado-masochistic tendencies in the foundations of the Abrahamic faiths are obvious to all.

It is the most dangerous and disgusting concept of all, to think that all suffering in this world happens for a reason. The notion that any horror committed may be justified by the ends. Redemption justifies mass-murder, excused by "we deserve it" and "they deserved it". Religious morality is sick.

[ace1122tw]

@beerbuddy That is not an answer. Try again.