Really? An infinite punishment for a finite crime?

I explain two major flaws with the atheist arguement that God would be unjust and immoral to condemn someone to an eternal hell because they committed a finite crime/sin.

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[KomradKlaus]

the consequences of rape are finite because everyone involved will die within a century so any impact is finite and can be measured more or less objectively although it cannot be measured in a quantifiable

same with abortion

and the fruit shit shouldn't be considered a sin because there was no way they could have known it was wrong, and inherent original sin is a sickening and completely immoral concept

I've seen smegma produce better arguments than you

[TrustinJC]

@KomradKlaus Not true. Those people affected by the rape will interact with others. Children of the people involved with be affected. Their lives are altered, and therefore how they effect other people is also altered.

Same thing with an abortion. The effect that child would have on the world and those they would have come in catact with is altered. And only God can foresee and know the true extent of the changes and consequences.

[JESUStheATHEIST1]

i suffered through 19 seconds of your video which felt like an eternity of stupidity.

[TrustinJC]

@JESUStheATHEIST1 It's a shame that you are incapable of understanding that insults as a response to any arguement shows a lack of intelligence. And to do so without an actual arguement for your point of view really drives this point home.

So feel free to pass on my videos. I won't be offended in the least.

More importantly though, is the fact that I also won't be offended by your insults, as I'll just consider the source.

[darkrood]

1. If finite crimes have unmeasurable and infinite effect, then shouldn't it reasonable to argue that finite deeds like saving someone from a burning fire deserve infinite reward? Does Christianity even support infinite reward for good actions? If that's not enough

2. "if god let a rotten tree enters the heaven, it would be unjust." so rotten trees can never accept Christ and be forgiven?

[TrustinJC]

@darkrood I'm pretty sure that I explained in my video that it is not a persons good deeds that get someone into heaven, just as a persons foul deeds do not condemn them. Rather, it is the fact they they are either good or bad. The fruit merley identifies which they are.

2) We are all sinners. So it is always a rotten tree that first comes to Christ. After coming to Christ, we are made into a new creature that produces good fruit because we are good in our new form.

[painlessguy]

Another thing how was eating the fruit in the garden a sin? Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong. So now you are saying it's just to eternally punish the ignorant. You Christians are awesome. Eternally punish the finite sin of belief and the ignorant... then have the gall to call it just.

[painlessguy]

Your rules you play by them...

[painlessguy]

The only sin that sends you to hell is unbelief according to your book. So if I am an eternal being and I go to hell my unbelief would obviously end at the Judgement seat. So I'm spending eternity for my finite unbelief. Murderer's as long as they repent of their sins and accept Jesus through a prayer will go to heaven. Anyone that would give eternal punishment is not just and does not deserve worship. Even abortion will not send you to hell. It is only unbelief and the rejection of Christ.

[6630mcdo]

@KomradKlaus Mortal sin not forgiven is infinite. Only God gives people the will to confess any sin. If we saw the true evil of a mortal sin, then like angels the first one would send us to hell. Humans stupidity saves us for the first time. And, second devils created hell for a place to live. Hell never entered the mind of God.

[6630mcdo]

@KomradKlaus Mortal sin not forgiven is infinite. Only God gives people the will to confess any sin. If we saw the true evil of a mortal sin, then like angels the first one would send us to hell. Humans stupidity saves us for the first time. And, second devils created hell for a place to live. Hell never entered the mind of God. 

[cwross1976]

proof... evidence... does anyone have any? no, niether side. the best atheists can muster is the farce that is evolution (genetics...? an increase in data?) and christians don't even have to prove anything as their's is a position based on religious faith, ie just belief, no science...

[dmnemaine]

Who cares about all this? Here is the crux of the matter. You have no evidence to support the existence of a deity. Until you can produce that evidence, there is no reason to believe that such a deity exists. That's it. No evidence equals all your discussion about God is moot.

[ddjrlikeshugz]

so explain to me how ALL atheists are rotten trees if rotten trees are disobedient, rebellious, and evil.

and what are the defining characteristics of a 'rotten tree'?

and what about the good tree? when the fruit falls, does it not bruise?

and god forces himself into a paradoxical situation, he loves us, but condemns some of us to hell, thereby upsetting him. So God himself sins. and sometimes god kills babies too... (miscarriage, stillbirth) and that stays with the mother forever...

[mousiedung100]

Please show chapter and verse of the bible that says the world is round and the ones that back up your other claims. If the church understood astronomy, why was Galileo called a heretic? Not all calendars start with Jesus. Chinese? Hebrew? What real historians acknowledge the worldwide flood of Noah's day? By the way, global genocide seems like a sin that might deserve infinite punishment.

There's no proof of god or that the bible is god's word. There are no miracles.

[sidrojoe]

@mousiedung100

Yes everything he says is something he believes, just as everything you say is something you belive. The Bible said the earth was round thousands of yrs before man discoved it, blood was the lifesource of the body, water cycles that provide rain, the earth hung upon nothing in the solar system, all calendars began at the birth of Christ, historians [christian and non christians alike] acknowledge the birth, life and death of Jesus Christ, the flood of Noahs day, etc,etc.

[zipitup75]

@TrustinJC ok so if a stole a peice of gum, according to the belief i would suffer for eternity? how in the world is that fair? or just this is one of the reason i left christianity, it's so damn controlling, and people look at the disgusting things in the bible that God orders people to do, and no matter how cruel it is we would alway rationalize it to make God look as if he did something good when in fact it was cruel, petty and unjust, who order people to cut babies out of woman's belly

[redcommander27]

Another objection of mine is that the sins are finite as those they harm will die, and that the punishment of physical torture is unjust.

[redcommander27]

I think your argument is interesting as it takes more of a virtue ethics view of justice rather than a deontoligcal one. My key objection is that if the rotten tree is being punished for its refusal to change and its existence is eternal, why can't it be given the opportunity to change in the next life if this one is so short and insignificant in comparison?

[mousiedung100]

I'm sorry, everything you say is just something you believe. You have no factual basis for anything you say. That makes for a poor argument. The bible is not an authoritative source. It's just a book written centuries ago by people.

[heavymetaldeath4life]

@TrustinJC "Those people affected by the rape will interact with others." Do you want me to go over rape, murder and crime in general statistics for you? Do you want me to compare with Theist:Atheist ratio when it comes to crime? Anyway, the rape victim who interacts with others will only interact with them in this life right? So how is that infinite?

[TheEd0206]

The bible says there is such thig as the end of the world or armagedon, the negative reprocaution of a crime is not infinite. It will be finite, when the world ends, when armagedon comes. Well, this is assuming that you believe the bible is right, that there is armagedon.

[KomradKlaus]

and if sin is so overreaching, then how can any mortal be expected to understand the consequences of any "sin"?

as I said before, smegma can pose better arguments

[SatiricalStewie]

I dont believe in torture for anyone, for any crime, its barbaric and unnecessary, so why would God allow that?

And I dont really understand this rotten tree thing. If you are born a rotten tree, how is that your fault. what kind of god creates you sick and commands that you are well. And how can that remain for eternity, if that is a certainty, how can we have free will. And God doesnt have to let people into heaven but he doesnt have to hurt people. So many questions atheists ask

[julzabro]

Your hell is not supposed to be doled out in THIS life but in an after life, so your example of future generations going on from a child conceived of rape is hardly relevant.

[Cootabux]

I love the OT & the history of Judaism bcuz it illustrates my points better than anything else.

Xians are put in an impossible position of defending every word of scripture bcuz they actually believe it's god's inerrant word. This is why it's impossible 4 them to defend & justify god's evil actions in the OT. What they treat as god's word, is man's. If not, & this son of god (Yahweh) was real, then we are left with an evil deity who has a penchant for killing children for the sins of others.

[Cootabux]

It's interesting how you spent all that time using extreme examples, bcuz it makes no difference. "Any" offence, I don't care how bad, deserves eternal torment! Such a cruel & sadistic, after the fact, punishment, is insane.

What's outrageous about Hell is that the manufacturer blames his toys for not performing as he wanted. The blame doesn't lie with us.

Glad u mentioned Original Sin bcuz nothing is more unjust than punishing A & E, but moreso, curing humanity for A & E's disobedience!!

[LifeLibertyLove]

Evil existed before man ever sinned therefore God is responsible or neglectful.

[JESUStheATHEIST1]

@TrustinJC lack of intelligence? perhaps. maybe i should take another look into the talking snake story from the book of unicorns,arcs,slavery,genocide­,child rape,torture.....you know the bible.

im crazy but your the one with the imaginary friend.