The Holy Land: To Whom Does It Belong? (Hebrew)

Yeshayahu Leibowitz and Israel Eldad debate "Who owns Israel? The Arabs or Jews?" Maalot 1982

Translation by daledheyalef

First Guy: It is an issue close to our hearts, related to zionism. I come from a moshav here, close to Maalot. We have land which 30 years ago were occupied by the same Ishmaelites that this man (looks back) hates, and I am supposed to answer this Ishmaelite friend who tells me 'this land which you plow, i occupied it 30 yrs ago' in a friendly way he says it, "how do you explain the fact that you are plowing it now, and sometimes by my labor, you pay me or my friends to plow land that belongs to me". What do I tell this Arab who I am supposed to be living with in peace? I want there to be a day that he will sit with me as a friend rather than contemplate my destruction.

Leibowitz: (roughly, he uses "big words" sorry if its not completely accurate) no nation has a right to any land.  I am not only speaking on the right of jews to israel or the right of palestinians to the land they call palestine. I am asking: what is the right of Swedish people to Sweden? The answer is that they have no right to Sweden. However, eight million swedes live by the personal (lit. in their souls) knowledge that this land is the land of their nation. That is the relation of the Swedish people to Sweden. This relation is no deeper than any legal right. When there are legal rights you can make judgements, you can argue. We all know that there is an established group that make a living from this, arguing and making judgement on rights, namely judges. On personal knowledge/beliefs you cannot argue. (points to man who asked questions, says stuff i dont understund and then:) This not just between you and the arab, rather it is between the Israeli nation and the Palestinian nation who are both living in a situation where both are living by the personal belief that the land is theirs. Everyone must ask: well what now then? there are two options. That is to say really one option, only one of the two The difficulties of such a division will be, from all perspectives, tremendous.

- Two choices, the third is nonexistent!
- Total War. The entire world will back the arab side.
- The alternative is partition to two states. I know, as do everyone else that this is not rational and it is not right/just. The difficulties following from such a partition will be tremendous. But, history cannot be changed.



Yeshayahu Leibowitz and Israel Eldad debate "Who owns Israel? The Arabs or Jews?" Maalot 1982 Israel Eldad (b. 1910 as Israel Scheib in Podvolochisk, Galicia, d. 1996), was a Revisionist Zionist philosopher. He was an early member and later chief ideological strategist of the Lohamei Herut Yisrael (Fighters for the Freedom of Israel) or Lehi. Called By the British the Stern Gang. Philosophy Eldad did not believe that the creation of the state of Israel was the goal of Zionism. He advocated more forceful use of the Israel Defense Forces and opposed the inclusion of the word "defense" in the name of the army. He opposed ceding any land to the Arabs. Yeshayahu Leibowitz ( 1903-1994) was an Israeli philosopher and scientist noted for his outspoken and often controversial opinions on Jewish ethics, religion and politics. Political views An Orthodox Jew, Leibowitz was known primarily for his philosophical writings and scathing critique of Israeli values and national policy. His remarks shortly after the Lebanon War in 1982 accusing Israeli soldiers of "Judeo-Nazi" mentality provoked a public outcry. While such remarks led some to conclude that he was an anti-Zionist, Leibowitz repeatedly affirmed his belief in the validity of the Zionist endeavor, both in writing and in conversation, throughout his life.

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• The
• Holy
• Land:
• To
• Whom
• Does
• It
• Belong?
• (Hebrew)

[daledheyalef]

Leib last words: The difficulties of such a division will be, from all perspectives, tremendous. ( i dont know if Leibowitz means one state or two state solution, although im pretty sure leibowitz is a proponent of the one sate solution).

[marinata01]

daledheyalef , I put your translation in the info data (see right above). Many thanks!!!!

[daledheyalef]

First Guy: It is an issue close to our hearts, related to zionism. I come from a

moshav here, close to Maalot. We have land which 30 years ago were occupied by

the same Ishmaelites that this man (looks back) hates, and I am supposed to

answer this Ishmaelite friend who tells me 'this land which you plow, i occupied

it 30 yrs ago' in a friendly way he says it, "how do you explain the fact that

you are plowing it now, and sometimes by my labor, you pay me or my friends to

[marinata01]

daledheyalef , your translation was cut because youtube dosen't allow more than certain words. could you pm it to me?

[jugganaut26]

English subs, please.

[CaptainBluebear08]

Subtitle, and I'll subscribe.

[Liran45]

אני ממש התרשמתי מחוכמתו של ישעיהו ליבוביץ' זצ"ל(ולא, לא התבלבלתי, כי בשבילי הוא צדיק יסוד עולם).

הוא היה אחת מנקודות השפיות האחרונות בציבור הדתי. אני אחזק את דבריו עם פסוק כ"ג בפרק כ"ה בספר ויקרא: "וְהָאָרֶץ, לֹא תִמָּכֵר לִצְמִתֻת--כִּי-לִי, הָאָרֶץ: כִּי-גֵרִים וְתוֹשָׁבִים אַתֶּם, עִמָּדִי.".

ומי שימשיך לקרוא מהפסוק הזה, ואילך, יקרא שאלוהים אומר שהארץ הזו שלנו בערבון מוגבל. אני גם ממליץ לקרוא את פרשת שופטים בספר דברים.

אני לא ימני ולא שמאלני. אני מרכז. איזון זה הדבר הכי טוב!

[HABARBUR]

מדהים לקרוא פה תגובות שטנה ושנאה. השנה היא 1982, לפני 30 (!) שנים ופרופ' לייבוביץ' ז"ל צפה בדיוק את שיהיה. הכיבוש משחית אותנו כחברה ואת סיכויי ההישרדות שלנו. בדיוק מה שקרה ועודנו קורה

בנוגע לטענות המשיחיות ההזויות של אלה המאמינים שזו ארצו של העם היהודי מסביר לייבוביץ' באופן חד משמעי - "לשם הארץ ומלואה". עכשיו אנא מכם, מי שמכם לקבוע מהו רצונו של השם?

[pistolro777]

מעמד לא ראוי לאדם ראוי

האם כשאדון זה מדבר מישהו יכול לדבר לאדם זה יש הכישרון והיכולת כשאדם כמו הפרופסור ליבו מדבר אני היתי מקשיב כי כל הפרעה פוגעת וחותכת בגוף הקשר

ולענינינו לכל הביקורתים על ליבו

רואים אנחנו שהמנגנון הולך בדרכו של ליבו

על ידי מסירת השטחים לפלסתנים ועוד

אבל כיון שכבודו לא עימנו נשארנו עם שאלות שאין להם תשובה כיון שסביבנו טיפשים שלא שאלו וכיון שליבו לא על פני האדמה

המנגנון מנסה וטועה ולא צפויות הצלחות כיון שהראיה היא לא ב360 מעלות

[nomaed]

A lot of respect to Leibowitz to have been able to reconcile the cognitive dissonance he must have had while trying to view the world through rational eyes, but still basing everything of primitive mythology. He was lucky that scripture can be twisted and reinterpreted for pretty much any need. Otherwise, he'd either go insane, or lose his faith.

[MartianSanta]

Leibowitz was so smart, he was a true prophet. the only thing he got wrong is the assumption the world would support the Arabs, and now they support the Jews. now the Palestinians want two states solutions and the Israelis want to annex the entire country.

[boliusb]

Can anybody Israel Eldad's words? and the questioners?

[rafishalom1]

אלדד הבין היטב את מה שליבוביץ לא הבין והמציאות תומכת באלדד.

[matan55m]

זקנים שמאלנים עוכרי ישראל

יאאלה דב חנין לך איתם לגיהנום

[perrik7]

סתם יהודי זקן ומנוון חשיבה

הארץ כבר מחולקת

ירדן שלהם אי שלנו

מי שרוצה, שישאר פה לשרת את היהודים

כפליט פולשתיני לא זכויות אזרח