Green Party Opposes Prop 14

No description available.

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• green
• party
• 14
• no
• 20
• 10

[Mutex50]

@CBlargh Lets say there are 2 Republicans and 4 democrats on the ballot.  If you are a Dem and you don't want both of the Republicans getting to the general, you are going to have to vote for the leading Democrat. Since I don't have enough room here, I'm going to elaborate this in a PM.

Also, I don't think very many people are going to vote for every single candidate that isn't black just because they don't want a black guy to get elected.

[CBlargh]

@Mutex50

Plurality isn't a system, it's the greatest number of votes.

In what way do people have to vote against a candidate in an open primary? How might this even be accomplished?

With an approval ballot, any racist who checks every box except the black guy will have a much greater effect on the vote than the person who thinks the black guy would make an excellent candidate (and yes, I'm using this example on purpose).

[Mutex50]

@CBlargh And plurality is the system in which you vote against people. It isn't much different with the open primaries that use plurality. People still have to vote against candidates to ensure that their 2 least favorite don't end up in the general. Approval allows you to vote for any candidate that you like and it is much more likely to produce the Condorcet winner. If we used AV for the open primaries, we would have the 2 best candidates competing against each other in the general election.

[Mutex50]

@CBlargh It matters that he was the one in the runoff because if the left parties hadn't split the vote, Jospin would have ran against Chirac in the runoff in a more competitive election and he had an actual shot at winning.

[CBlargh]

@Mutex50

There's no 2nd place in elections! Who cares that Le Pen was in the runoff? He didn't win.

Contrast the 2002 French election with the 2000 US election in which Ralph Nader handed the presidency to George Bush. One person selecting the president like this is not democracy, and it wouldn't have happened with open primaries.

My problem with approval voting is that voters who are against a candidate (perhaps because of the colour of her skin) get more say than voters who are for one.

[Mutex50]

@CBlargh The left split the vote and an extreme right-winger got into the runoff. The result was that very few additional people voted for Le Pen and Chirac won by a landslide in a very uncompetitive election. Clearly, the two best candidates didn't make it to the runoff.

It will also be harder for people to vote for the gp because people wouldn't want to throw their vote away and risk more conservative candidates getting into the general. Approval voting can help a minor party grow with time.

[CBlargh]

@Mutex50

2002 almost saw Chirac against a socialist. Why is that bad?

All the greens have to do is come in second in the primary to win.

Right now, they are missing a huge block of voters who are smart enough to know it's better to vote for a more progressive democrat who has a better shot at winning than wasting a vote on a green who can't win.

I'm not so big on approval voting, but ranked choice is okay. I think a 2-person general really focuses debate though.

[Mutex50]

@CBlargh It will be the two richest because they have enough recognition to get the plurality. The other candidates will split the vote or everyone will vote for the richest candidate that they perceive as the lesser of two evils because they don't want the two worst candidates to go to the general. See the 2002 French presidential election to see how this can backfire.

This would be a great system if approval voting were used to get the top two candidates.,

[tovarco]

Go Green party!!!

[noonprop14theatre]

“Prop. 14 Deception” video on YouTube is almost as wacky as the demon sheep political ad.  Check out that wacky video.