Adjournment Debate - 21st December, 2011 - Part 2
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@andrewkiwi100 is it not just that we should live in a fair society, if there is a flat tax rate the rich will still be paying more than the poor, i have no private debt nor do my parents, as i say when you have no money, you do without, this society has made that debt is the social norm, this needs to change, we need to be a fair society where if there is tax each person pays at the same rate, why should the rich who already pay more amount have to pay a higher proportion?
KiwiTomCrawford 2 months ago
@KiwiTomCrawford We live in a society together. People prosper of each other. We can't have an only-me focus. The high level of private debt is part of the reason why NZ recently had two credit downgrades. You say tax is stealing? You're kidding, right? Tax pays for roads, social services, public grounds, the list is endless. In a me-driven economy the heartless "prosperous" people win, and most, if not all, people are worse off. Flat tax is absolutely cruel to those on the bottom end.
andrewkiwi100 2 months ago
@andrewkiwi100 private debt is explained in the name, it is private and it is up to the induvidual who was silly enough to get into debt to pay off, the point of public debt is that the public have to pay for it whether they wanted to get into debt or not, tax is stealing, why should someones prosperity be forced to be shared around, and its not even fair taxing in new zealand, i would be less upset if we had a flat tax rate, look at this, google classroom socialism radio live.
KiwiTomCrawford 2 months ago
@KiwiTomCrawford There are ways to pay off state debt besides selling assets, eg taxing capital. At the moment property developers don't pay any income tax because of this silly loophole. Besides, public debt isn't NZ's problem; it's private debt. I recommend you watch or read Winston Peters' Address in Reply speech (watch?v=KgTWweVoE7U). He makes a good point about John Key's reasons for asset sales.
andrewkiwi100 2 months ago
@andrewkiwi100 my parents raised me to beleive that clearing debt is of paramount importance, they did not get a loan if the car needed replacing they simply did without until they could save up the money, they always taught me what do you do when you have no money? you do without! It is not my fault that this country is in debt, however i would very much like to see that debt payed off as soon as possible, and if the wealthy benifit from the country having no debt, then so be it.
KiwiTomCrawford 2 months ago
@andrewkiwi100 I am not wealthy i am simply hard working and am very careful to not to squander my money, i do not got out often, perhaps even as little as 6 times a year, i have not travelled overnight in more than 3 years and have only been overseas once 5 years ago, i do not buy a packet of chips at the supermarket just because i want a treat, i work hard, the longer you work the more money you make and the less time you have to spend it.
KiwiTomCrawford 2 months ago
@KiwiTomCrawford Because the other 4.4 million Kiwis want to keep their share. Only the wealthy are set to gain from state asset sales.
andrewkiwi100 2 months ago
@andrewkiwi100 Well i can tell you in 20 years time we wont still be paying off debt because we decided to not sell off 49% of the state assets, and what if i want a bigger share, am i not entitled to that? if i have the money why would the govt not want to have it?
KiwiTomCrawford 2 months ago
@KiwiTomCrawford OK, so what do we do in 20 years' time? John Key doesn't care; it won't be his problem then! You own 1/4,432,869 of each asset - just as much as any other citizen, rich or poor. Why should the top end have more power over ordinary Kiwis?
andrewkiwi100 2 months ago
@andrewkiwi100 well the dividends already go into the govt coffers, if you sell off the 49% you still have complete control over it and the initial money from selling the shares which can be worth up to 20 years worth of dividends, so let me ask you, clear the debt now, let the private trading market build up the worth of the shares, or wait up to 20 years in which time you will incur even more debt and have to pay even more interest, just let me invest in what is suposedly mine!
KiwiTomCrawford 2 months ago