"There is none righteous, no not one"?

Since making this video, my view of the Bible has changed quite a bit. For more info, see my homepage. Also, check out my other channel: www.youtube.com/AfricansArise

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• Paul
• Torah
• Law
• Commmandments
• Calvinism
• Depravity
• Bible
• Messiah
• Christ
• Disciples
• Prophets
• Apostles
• Discernment

[captaincanuck65]

(continued from below)

as Peter says in 1 Peter 3:18 "Christ died for sins once for all the righteous for the unrighteous."

anyway, that was really long.  But i'd be interested to hear your thoughts on that.

Cheers!

[Torahrevival]

Hey, thanks for your very eloquent comments. I much appreciate your approach.

I think my response would be that Most High does/did not ever expect perfection from man. He expected people to be pliable and teachable. I think the scriptures teach that if a man seeks after righteousness through walking in obedience, then he is accepted by Yah...

[Torahrevival]

... of course, this then begs the question - why did Messiah had to die? As I've said many times, this is for me a weighty issue and one I'm still waiting for a clear answer on.

People will respond by rebuking me for not accepting what they see as the obvious (i.e. substitionary atonement) but that's just the way I see things. I really don't think the substitutionary atonement concept really captures the true significance of his death.

Hope that's not too weak an answer.

[bojann79]

Shalom TR, how are you ahki?

Do you investigate the link ccgDOTorg/english/s/p104DOThtm­l

abaout Paul.

I am Waiting for your answer

[Torahrevival]

Shalom ahki. I'm doing well thanks, just busy. I haven't checked that article out yet. I've had a few responses to these videos and I'm taking time to go through each one. I'll definitely let you known when I've looked at the article.

Peace

[Torahrevival]

... if he's doing a) then the discussion is over, and Paul's writings were clearly in error here. But even if he's doing b) you have to ask, who gave him the right to take David and YeshaYah's words and apply meannings to them that were not intended by the prophets?

It's like those Replacement Theology-types who everytime they read "Israel" in prophecies, they the Tanakh, they interpret it as meaning some Gentile "Church" entity...

[Torahrevival]

..and interestingly, it's also the kind of thing that can be found in the Talmud and other rabbinic texts. You can find places where the rabbis take a portion of a text, isolate it from the contaxt, and then make it mean something different to what it would mean if read in context. And this is what Paul did in Romans 3.

[bojann79]

Yes we need God's grace but that not mean that we can do what we want to do. We can not say the Law is not valid anymore and we are saved by grace and that is all. Because we are saved by grace we need to seeks after righteousness walking in obedience and if we fall like David, God's grace waiting us to repent and come back to Yah. That is the fight but like child who learn to walk, when he learn to walk he fall and he get up and try again. God not see are falls but ambitions we have for walking

[captaincanuck65]

hey man, that wasn't a weak answer at all, you've got to struggle through this with God, I respect that you're thinking htis through. I am interested as to why you don't think substitutionary atonement captures the true significance of the Messiah's death. As I see it, it is the perfect, and beautiful fulfillment of the Torah. One death for all, the righteous for the unrighteous. But, to be fair, I can see how not believing that Jesus was God incarnate would get in the way of that.

[captaincanuck65]

(continued from below)

That's what I understand Paul to be saying. I've never murdered anyone, but I have hated in my heart. I've never committed adultery, but I've lusted in my heart (Matthew 5:17-30). That is why the Israelites sacrificed on the day of Atonement, and it is why God has given a superior sacrifice in Jesus, God incarnate (which i know you don't believe from reading your page, but that's Paul's argument)

(continued)

[captaincanuck65]

(continued from below)

I think Paul's point is that our efforts in trying to obtain righteousness through the Torah aren't enough. We can be decent people from a human perspective by trying to follow the Torah, but when compared to the Holy God who knows our thoughts, intentions, and desires, we "fall short of the Glory of God" (Romans 3:23). Even David - a man after God's own heart, and Abraham - called God's friend, sinned. They weren't perfect, and as such they needed God's grace. (cont)

[captaincanuck65]

(continued from below)

but that all of mankind has been tainted by sin (as has all of God's creation). He used those references to show the vast spectrum of our sinfulness. I consider myself to be one "who seeks after God," but only because God has first sought me. And in my seeking of God, i continually fail, turning away to seek my own selfish desires. I would never have sought God without his calling me to, and even in my seeking, i don't seek whole-heartedly. (continued)

[captaincanuck65]

hey,

I just want to say that I really appreciate your commitment to examining the scriptures and not just accepting without thinking. The New Testament calls people like you noble (Acts 17:11)

My understanding of the passage you examined in Romans 3, was that Paul was using those Old Testament references (or references to the prophets and wisdom writings if you prefer those terms) was not to prove that every person on earth is a vile, murderous, scum-bag, with no decency at all (continued)

[Ramohog]

John 6:62-63 "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh accomplishes nothing. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

This takes care of your last 2 teaching series. Paul was living this Spirit filled life!

6:66 As a result, many of his disciples turned back and no longer associated with him.

It looks like you are heading in the same direction TR.