Daniel Dennett interviewed on Explorations 2/3

Daniel Dennett talks about his book "Breaking The Spell".
Explorations is a weekly podcast by Michio Kaku.

Listen to past shows: http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?show=33

Category:

Science & Technology

Tags:

• Religion
• Atheism
• SciencePhilosophy
• Daniel
• Dennett
• Michio
• Kaku
• Explorations

[BionicDance]

But the line between animal and sentient animal is not clearly defined. Primates, for example, or probably dolphins as well, have a much greater intelligence and understanding than most other animals.

It seems to me that your thinking--or at least how you've expressed it here--is far too black-and-white on this issue.

[BionicDance]

I don't think that line can be drawn as you do, not at all. I don't think it's something you can cross and then suddenly--*WHACKO*--hello, self-awareness. It would, by definition, be a smooth gradient...and given the multiple paths nature has taken with various species, there'z no way that line would be STRAIGHT, either...

[LeopardFrogPilboxhat]

I don't think a description of sentience is something that's either or. I mean if it did evolve gradually and we see shades of it everywhere it should be a gradient. Maybe not even that simple maybe it's only sometimes.

maybe when a squid is feeling particularly contemplative, at that moment, in some way there is a mind there that I would call an intellectual analog, if not a peer.

[LeopardFrogPilboxhat]

very interesting especially considering how there are all these isolated tribes with common elements.

Fertility, war, ancestor whorship, afterlife, agency detection.

Good stuff all around

[MrPoopybum]

There are indeed some creatures other than humans that, from as best as we can tell, are, in some level, sentient; such as dolphins, apes, cats, dogs, and whales..

However, these other "sentient" animals' levels of consciousness, their tolerances and perceptions of pain, and thus their capability to even comprehend or understand concepts such as mortality, can also be, to an admittedly yet unknown but fairly reasonable degree, demonstrated to be limited by the structure of their nervous system.

[Archaneus]

Well, I am a bit limited in my response length :). There are levels of animal intelligences, that's true, but the majority, it seems to me, can be clearly placed on the other side of a well drawn line. Primates are much harder, they are so very similar to us that they do seem to show signs of sentience in a limited sense. Dolphin intelligence is actually rather exaggerated in the public consciousness but they might be on this side of the line. It is a very nuanced subject to be sure.

[Archaneus]

There are people who study animal behavior, this is bit of an argument from authority so forgive me, but these animal behaviorists do not consider animals sentient. Animals have a very limited ability to reason in the short term. The concept is that a major difference between human and animal brains is we have the ability to project a future and imagine responses beforehand, whereas animals can only react to current events. I don't KNOW animals aren't sentient, but the evidence is lacking.

[BionicDance]

How do you know that? Have you ever mind-melded with a gazelle? I rather doubt it.

They're clearly capable of reason, at least of a sort. They're certainly more self-aware than an ant. How can you possibly make a blanket statement like "Gazelles aren't sentient creatures?"

And they certainly understand PAIN, at the very least. And surely they've seen death before; they have to have SOME understanding of it.

[Archaneus]

Gazelles aren't sentient creatures. They aren't capable of contemplating the fact that, at some point in the future, there will come a time when they will die. A gazelle only reacts in the short-term to the stimulus with which it is presented. It does not project a future and then consider the implications of those facts.

[BionicDance]

"Animals aren't aware of their mortality,"; I've never quite understood this assertion...I'm fairly certain a gazelle knows about its mortality, or it probably wouldn't run from that lion...