Ken Wilber: Emptiness & the Existential Halfway House

Ken Wilber, Integral Psychotherapy Seminar, august 2004.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• ken
• wilber
• emptiness
• existential
• integral
• psychotherapy
• psychology
• spiritual
• non-dual
• awareness
• consciousness
• presence
• states
• stages
• vedanta
• oneness
• enlightenment

[Shojman]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

[PrimaryQuanta]

@Shojman

egg. a slightly different bird laid a mutated chicken egg which branched off into the current species.

[JonathanAFuentes]

@Shojman

Maybe the egg, maybe the chicken

[rockandmetalnewz]

@Shojman Neither..as they both ultimately don't exist. Looks like awareness came first.. cheers!

[Neuromance27]

@greenrate Hmm, I thought he does integrate the fact through the subtle, gross, causal talks.

[marz80801980]

@greenrate I don't think that is the case. Wilber says on multiple occasions that any practice of non-duality must embrace both the emptiness & the form. Early Buddhist practices stressed emptiness because there was a tendency for people to be overly attached to form. However, clearly tantric Buddhism is more about participating in the splendor of forms while still maintaining awareness.

Whether we need to focus on emptiness or form, that's just a reflection of our current state of being. =]

[greenrate]

@marz80801980

(LOL) We agree about nonduality.

But originally . . . we were talking about Wilber himself.

If you use a spiritual practise that's oriented towards Emptiness as ultimate base of reality (as Wilber does and advocates) . . . then Emptiness is what you'll find.

But . . . if you use a spiritual practise that's oriented toward Being as ultimate base (a much rarer practise/experience) . . . then THAT'S what you'll find.

Wilber simply won't "integrate" that fact . . .

[marz80801980]

@greenrate I see your point and whole-heartedly agree. But let's take it one step further.

There is a form to emptiness, and an emptiness to all form. The form of emptiness IS Being. And the emptiness of Form is the clearly experiential fact that all forms are in flux, change, die and are reborn anew.

It's not so much that Emptiness and Form are on distinct sides. Nonduality is the recognization that any conceptual split at the heart of existence is the basis of its own re-integration.

[greenrate]

@marz80801980

Yes, but my issue: where Wilber "locates" Being.

Wilber (typically Buddhist) has Emptiness on one "side" . . . and Form on the other.

And he locates Being on the Form side.

But not all spiritual traditions experience it that way -- they simply don't (!)

In some: Being is on one side . . . and Forms on the other.

And Emptiness arises from Being as a kind of Form (!)

Wilber just won't consider that.

See the difference . . . even if you don't agree about it?

[marz80801980]

@greenrate That's not correct. Though I don't agree with all of Weber, I have heard him multiple times account for nonduality AND the arising of Being by saying they are held together in two profound ways, namely: 1) wisdom that tunes into emptiness, & 2) Compassion for the arising of Being in form.

[greenrate]

Well, "narrow" in this context usually means that one passes over too quickly, too easily, too INTELLECTUALLY . . . the significance of something.

At its best that's just part of legitimate thinking & abstracting . . . but sometimes it reveals an underlying bias & lack of personal attunement to certain realms of experience.

So, for example, Wilber typically waves away emotions phenomenologically without sensitivity to the profound ontological significance they have for being Human.