The Ace in the Hole - Perpetual Q&A 003

A video discussion what I believe makes someone an 'ace', and then which wrestlers from NOAH, NJPW, AJPW and Dragon Gate would be considered the 'aces'.

Qn: "Who would you consider the aces of the promotion in japan at the moment, and do you see any wrestlers who have the potential to be aces in the future?" - munchsomegrindage

Some other aces:
Zero-1: Tanaka Masato
Hustle: Magnum Tokyo
DDT: Ibushi Kota
BJW: Miyamoto Yuko
IGF: Josh Barnett
Dradition: Fujinami Tatsumi
Michinoku Pro-Wres: Fujita "Jr." Hayato
Osaka Pro: Billy Ken Kid
RJPW: Tiger Mask I

Category:

Sports

Tags:

• japanese
• pro
• wrestling
• puroresu
• ichibanpuroresu
• puro
• ace
• shiozaki
• suguira
• tanahashi
• nakamura
• kojima
• kobashi
• NOAH
• NJPW
• AJPW
• Dragon
• Gate
• CIMA
• Doi

[KingAndy1992]

NJPW didn't have much of an ace in 2008. It was kinda "everyone trying to become the ace by going over AJPW invader Mutoh". My current NOAH ace would either be Sugiura or KENTA, although I've been in NJPW mode for a few months.

[IchibanPuroresu]

@KingAndy1992 HAHAHAHAHAHA yone! you know.... he was actually pretty good once.. back in his BattleArts days! ;)

who would be your 2008 ace for NJPW and your current ace for NOAH?

[KingAndy1992]

I think Nakamura is a fine choice for ace. Tana would have been better pre-Boma Ye face fucking, but I digress.

I think Kobashi is a draw in NOAH the same way Mutoh was a draw in NJPW. I'm not referring to the "outsider wining the strap" element, but more the "people love and know Mutoh, and think of him as a legend". I wouldn't have called Mutoh NJPW ace last year, and I don't think Kobashi is NOAH ace now. That spot is held by the illustrious Mohammed Yone.

Not really.

[IchibanPuroresu]

@KingAndy1992

Puroresu isn't drawing as well as it once did. Basically I picked Nakamura based upon his status as champion, he's the front of every poster I've seen where he is on the card and he's the media representative (along with Chono and Goto) - Tanahashi's injury made it easy too.

For NOAH, i simply took the hierarchy and drawing power in the present. The future is obviously not burning orange, but right now, a dome show with Kobashi in the main event would put bums on seats.

[KingAndy1992]

Maybe Tanahashi and Nakamura aren't filling arenas, but they get a large reaction. If they aren't drawing, it's because puroresu isn't drawing.

[IchibanPuroresu]

Nakamura has some numbers in his favour this year, but not enough to cross reference it to draw any sorts of firm conclusions. The same can be said of Shiozaki and KENTA for NOAH. Numbers that look OK, but you cannot isolate that individual as the cause of those good numbers. For that reason, I went a little into the kayfabe heirachy. Also that heirachy is MASSIVELY important at NOAH. It's intrinsic to the King's Road methodology and to the Ark Road so far.

[IchibanPuroresu]

@KingAndy1992

"but not someone upon who's shoulders you can safely rest a promotion"

Yes, I agree that NOAH cannot rest their promotion on Kobashi's shoulders, but I dont agree that you need to be that to be the current ace... but I see where you're coming from.

There's a lot of debate going on about who does/doesn't draw both at NOAH and with NJPW. There is absolutely no evidence that either Tanahashi or Nakamura are really significant draws.

[KingAndy1992]

Cancer is a pretty big deal.....also, Kobashi is getting old. Your ace can't be ready to retire any time. Kobashi is 10 years older than the New Japan aces, and several years passed his prime. Still, a major draw, but not someone upon who's shoulders you can safely rest a promotion.

Tanahashi did suffer an injury this year, but NJPW has literally proclaimed him their ace, and he is certainly their top, or 1/2 of their top draw. Makabe was filler, nothing more.

[IchibanPuroresu]

@KingAndy1992

The only thing that is not very reliable about Kobashi is cancer. His injury rate is lower than Tanahashi's and Nakamura's once you take out two episodes of cancer.

You get an idea for the sort of year Tanahashi has had when Makabe (YES! makabe!!!) is getting MVP awards from the mainstream press (who LOVE tanahashi). i even doubted by own claim of Nakamura, but numbers indicate that in the last 12 months he can get bums on seats.

what exactly did you mean by reliability?

[KingAndy1992]

In my opinion, the ace is a combination of 2 simple things, marketability and reliability. I don't consider Kobashi the ace because while highly marketable, he is not very reliable. Someone like Tanahashi is a good example of this. He is both wildly popular and, due to his young age and durability, dependable. The same can be said of Nakamura.