@Viteunic - Abortion and Life

@Viteunic - Abortion and Life

Viteunic states in a comment made to one of my videos:

"EVEN the bible says, that life begins with the first breath... you are just too ignorant to understand that fetuses arent living...
Additionally the bible rates existing life higher than potential life. So if u are religious, think about it.
im a christ and i am pro-choice!"


Alright, several things are wrong with these statements, plus an ad hominem fallacy.
Let us, therefore, address and correct the points that were raised.

1. What if I'm not religious? :-D
Seriously though, abortion is not a religious issue but a moral issue, which reason, science, and faith can help us solve.
2. The Bible may have said that God breathed on Adam to give him life, but this was the first human being (not to mention the various non-literal interpretations that may be given here).
2.1. A direct citation of the supposed text that "life begins with the first breath" would also be appreciated and necessary.
3. "EVEN the Bible says..." makes it sound like other sources say life begins with the first breath. Well, do fish breath? They take oxygen in a different way that we do, just like plants do.
4. Scientific research concludes the same thing: life begins at *conception*, not when the baby breathes or not. (See http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html)
5. Even then, a fetus "breathes", or more correctly, receives oxygen from his mother's umbilical cord.
6. If the fetus isn't living, then what is it? Even bacteria or parasites are alive, so how come that this organism inside a woman's womb is not alive and yet when is born it looks just like a baby?
7. Where does the Bible "rate existing life higher than potential life"? Again, a direct citation is needed or this point is totally made up -- and ignorant.
7.1. I would suggest to Viteunic and everyone else to look up verses such as Jeremiah 1:4-5; Isaiah 49:1,5; Psalm 51:5; Genesis 16:11; Isaiah 46:3-4; Psalm 22:9-10.
7.2. If you're a Christian that does not go by the Bible alone, the first Christians wrote against abortion as well, look up for instance Didache 2:12; Letter of Barnabas 19; A Plea for the Christians 35; Tertullian's Apology 9:8, among many others...

So whether you're religious or not, think about it. We have religion/faith (Scriptures and Tradition), science, and reason on our side.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Abortion
• Debate
• Bible
• Scriptures
• Religion
• God
• Adam
• Genesis
• Tradition
• Christian
• Catholic
• Pro
• Choice
• Life
• Anti

[WhereCanIGoFromHere]

The word for "punishment" in this verse is "anash" which literally means to pay a monetary fine. You have no idea what you're talking about. What I quoted from the Talmud (Yevamot 69b) is about 1500 years old, and there is no evidence that this belief (that until an embryo is 40 days old it is considered mere water) started the day it was written down. The Talmud compares a fetus to the thigh of the Mother at one point, indicating that it is not human life. You simply have no argument.

[mynameismatt2010]

@WhereCanIGoFromHere You are translating the verse literally, "fine" in the verse means punishment. It says that if one man causes a woman to lose her child the father will decide whatever punishment he wants. Historical evidence of this being the true meaning is abundant because the jewish people did things exactly as i describes untill relatively recently.

[WhereCanIGoFromHere]

The verses you post, aside from being mostly poems and songs that aren't talking about abortion or fetuses, could be taken to say the same thing about sperms and eggs. The fact that it talks about God having forknowledge about a person isn't about personhood. The Bible also shows in Numbers 5:11-31 the way test if a baby is yours (to find out if your wife cheated). If she did - "her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry.." - so basically her baby aborts if she cheated.

[WhereCanIGoFromHere]

The Bible does indeed rate existing life higher than potential life. Exodus 21:22. Two men are fighting and hit a pregnant girl. The fetus miscarries, there is no penalty other than a fine, but if the woman is hurt it is eye for eye, tooth for tooth, etc. The Talmud (Yevamot 69b) uses this very to clarify that "the embryo is considered to be mere water until the fortieth day." Afterwards, it is considered subhuman until it is born.

[calexander007]

@greycloud24 : Did we understand you correctly to state that the mass killing of human beings because of eugenics is not murder?

[calexander007]

@greycloud24 : Please provide a link to support your ridiculous claim that "it causes significantly more harm to society if a child grows up with terrible parents... than if a fetus is aborted." Many people grow up with parents they would describe as terrible, but they do not do harm to society. And statistics collected by the federal government show that since 1973, child abuse has risen dramatically.

[greycloud24]

@J1Militans it should not be considered killing unless we know for sure that the fetus will finish development and grow into a baby. not when it is believed, but when it is known for a fact. lets not have double standards if we are considering life and death. the fact is that it causes significantly more harm to society if a child grows up with terrible parents that cannot care for it, than if a fetus is aborted. this is statistically shown to be true (although there are individual exceptions).

[J1Militans]

@greycloud24 but what becomes of our humanity? If the question is to kill 1 born baby and a 2 year old kid instead of 100 grown adults.... What becomes of our humanity if we choose to kill the most vulnerable? It's sickening :(

That's why abortion can only be considered when it threatens the life of a woman. Not when it is believed it will, but when it is known for a fact.

[greycloud24]

@J1Militans i am saying that there are cases in which one must choose the lesser of two evils, and in some of this cases that means abortion.

[J1Militans]

@greycloud24 again, are you comparing a fetus with a teenager drugged up shotgun killer? That's just sick.