Van Til Apologetics at WTS

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• Til
• Apologetics
• at
• WTS

[gf4rce]

777 views.nice.

[DPMosteller]

@TomOwenM

Very well said Tom. One of my concerns, is how pulpits present finding happiness in marriage, life, work and the pursuit of happiness in general. Some advocating very carnal ways of finding happiness. I believe God often uses the trials and disappointments in marriage and family relationships to wound, and break, and crush a man of God to teach him Christlike selflessness and sacrifice more than almost anything else. It often comes at a heartbreaking cost, but the lesson is necessary.

[TomOwenM]

@DPMosteller My humble apology, I misinterpreted your latter remarks, while at the same time it is highly applicable for those who "seem" to be seeking happiness but in reality are deserting the LORD in heaven. Their mode of operation consists in running from God trying to find happiness where it cannot be found. They reject the truth in their wickedness.

[DPMosteller]

@TomOwenM

I agree with both Edwards, and Luther (Bondage Of The Will) on this point, we only have a choice of whatever sin appeals to us most at the time, whether going into ministry for personal reasons, or producing pornography. My statement was a hypothetical to show an internal contradiction. However, I'm not sure what you mean by your next statement. Are you addressing me with: "Your pursuit of what you deem "happiness," is in reality rebellion against God" or, was that meant for another?

[TomOwenM]

@DPMosteller mankind always "chooses his values." Mankind is in bondage to sin; therefore, always chooses sin. As Jonathan Edwards remarked in "The Freedom of the Will," we always choose what seems best to us at that time, specifically all we have the ability is to choose sin. Your pursuit of what you deem "happiness," is in reality rebellion against God. Anytime man chooses to deny the Sovereign Lord, he functions in what he thinks to be autonomy, or self government.

[DPMosteller]

@actionjackson864

You might want to consider a sports channel. This is material is obviously over your head.

[actionjackson864]

@DPMosteller "You say it is immoral to restrict my values, and then you restrict my values by not permitting my pursuit of happiness which to me may be murder and molestation." Incorrect. If one is committing murder and molestation, the murderer/molester would be denying man the right to exist and choose for his own sake. So again, he would be contradicting "A". "A" does not contradict itself. If I live by "allowing man to exist for his own sake" I cant murder bc I would deny his existence.

[DPMosteller]

@actionjackson864

"Living according to MY VALUES in the pursuit of happiness is moral. Not allowing a man to exist and choose HIS VALUES for his own sake is immoral." This statement has an internal contradiction. If you cannot see that, it's not because the statement is sound, it's because your thinking is not. You say it is immoral to restrict my values, and then you restrict my values by not permitting my pursuit of happiness which to me may be murder and molestation. That is contradictory.

[actionjackson864]

A murderer would be denying a man the right to exist for his own sake. A child molester would be causing harm. Therefore it is immoral. If you read "A" you will see that this is in fact consistent and is not self refuting.

[actionjackson864]

@DPMosteller " Your position is self-refuting. That means it contradicts itself, and is therefore invalid."

If this is true, why don't you show me how it's self refuting instead of just asserting that it is. It is not self refuting.