Madeline

My original video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv5ulmfkA3g

News article
http://www.stevenspointjournal.com/article/20091007/SPJ0101/910070674/1657

My blog article on homeopathy
http://godless.biz/2009/06/08/homeopathy-is-batshit-crazy/

Thanks to GotReason for the background research on this.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Madeline Kara Neumann
• madeline
• faith
• god
• death
• doctor
• science
• insulin
• homeopathy
• reason
• atheism
• atheist

[enkeksinickia]

This case just makes me sick. This is why we should ridicule all the religions all the time.

[askegg]

You are making informed decisions on your own health and well being, which is your right. However, this does not seem to b the case here. Madeline's parents chose a course of action which has been shown to have exactly the same effect as doing nothing at all. Rather than investigate the cause of the illness and investigate the various options (including their probability of success) they unilaterally decided to pray for her instead. Unfortunately, this resulted in her unnecessary death.

[askegg]

Not quite what I am addressing here.

In this case they have a treatment with well proven outcomes and results. instead the parents have opted for a treatment which is either unknown, or shown not to work. How is that a rational decision?

[TheAist]

im with ya, these situations are travesties of justice, and morality

[Marcaurelix]

The universe itself is entropic, but elements (systems) within the universe, such as galaxies, cells, ecosystems, and human beings, have been able to assemble themselves because, locally, entropy can be lowered by external action, e.g. solar heating action.

But this is only possible at the expense of an entropy increase in the surroundings; here more disorder must be created.

Living systems are open systems in which both heat, mass, and work transfer into or out of the system.

[Marcaurelix]

The inicial point of the universe was a single point, smaller than an atom, with an immense amount of heat and density.

But it is not necessary to produce this initial state because the universe has always existed.

[Marcaurelix]

Yes, there are processes the decrease entropy. But you need energy to sustain the system. For example, living creatures aquire it's energy from food.

A biological organism serves as an energy transfer mechanism or a "heat engine". Life feeds on negative entropy.

[keith1y]

So yes exactly thermodynamics does concern its self with the initial and final states.

The initial state of the universe had less entropy than the current state. Yet there is no process possible which can produce the initial state.

I think you ratified my point nicely.

However does an ultimate source with zero entropy, have infinite useful energy?

This points to an ultimate source of infinite order, from which a universe with some order maybe derived.

[keith1y]

Exactly, the universe is a system.

Every single process universally that involves a conversion of energy, results in a net increase in entropy.

Therefore within the system, there is no process which can decrease entropy of the whole system. So the system is not self sustaining, nor is it self starting.

This proves that there are forces external to the system at work. Logically the ultimate source has to have less entropy than the system it invests in.

[Marcaurelix]

This means that we, as living creatures, have physical "order", at the cost of an important energy consumption.