More on Family and DeFOOing

Some additional thoughts on family obligation, defooing, and what constitutes abuse from a parent to a child.

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• abuse
• family
• developmental
• psychology
• morality
• ethics
• egoism
• objectivism
• ayn
• rand
• defoo
• stefan
• molyneux
• FDR
• freedomain
• radio

[brendansechter]

Now, the empathy premise I flat out disagree with. People are people, and they are all flawed. Except for the odd sociopath, people generally try their best, given their abilities. Refusing to attempt to see the world from another person's perspective is just a bad way of dealing with people. It does not matter if they are related to you or not.

Also, the "solution" to the prisoner's dilemma is:

Nice.

Retaliating.

Forgiving.

Non-envious.

Generally good principles to live by (if not overdone).

[XOmniverse]

@brendansechter Why do you apply this standard to me and yourself but not to parents? Couldn't you say the same thing to my dad?

[Sivels]

@48073419900127 but there's no moral obligation.

[brendansechter]

@XOmniverse Where did I say that this does not apply to parents? A defoo is very drastic. Relationships with parents tend to improve after moving out.

Let's assume that your father is the devil himself. Not a good reason to act like spawn of the devil. That does not necessarily mean you chill with the guy. If he is so poisonous that calling to say "happy birthday" once a year makes you sick, don't do it. You could send a card without a return address instead so that you don't need to talk.

[brendansechter]

I basically agree with your general premise, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and cede that barring a contract you don't owe anyone anything.

Having said that, there is difference between owing someone something and being a nice person. A shopkeeper does not owe you service, but he does not need to be mean about it.

With slight modifications to your definition of abuse, defooing could be considered abusive. Not thinking about the implications of hurting your family is insensitive.

[48073419900127]

no moral duty? do you say "thank you" when someone shows kindness and opens the door for you? do you reciprocate kindness? i think it's just respectful. your parents, if they were good to you, deserve some respect.

[VonHOG]

the terminology of abuse, a few things i'd like to amend to what you said or repeat in different wording or whatever like that. I do think that perhaps abuse is too strong a word to use. I use to leave troll comments on stefan molyneux's videos because I felt that his position was extreme, due to the term abuse and his fanaticism also contributed to this extremity. It wasn't until your videos that I gave defooing serious consideration.

[pawnstar3]

@XOmniverse But even business relationships involve human beings. Every relationship involves an underlying contract by nature. Parents are supposed to provide a service. If they do a good job of it, you owe them something. If not, you cut ties accordingly. You can exit any relationship (business or social) if your needs aren't being met.

[XOmniverse]

@pawnstar3 I don't see how. I don't think it makes sense to have such a contract for human social (as opposed to business) relationships, where people need the freedom to exit when they don't find their needs being met.