Jesus: Incarnate God, or Human Prophet? Sami Zaatari vs Michael Dantzie

Title: Jesus: Incarnate God, or Human Prophet?

Event: Debate


Venue: Sussex University

Date: 10th November 2011

Category:

Travel & Events

Tags:

• Jesus
• christianity
• god
• islam
• human
• nature
• Quran
• Prophet
• Koran

[TheJinnAndTonicShow]

"Presenting Islam for the english speaking world"

I would love for you to be a guest on TheJinnAndTonicShow so that you can present Islam to the English speaking audience. Would you like to accept my invitation?

[mujtahid2006]

@TheJinnAndTonicShow

One on one moderated debate, fine - Muslim baiting on unfair TV show, not so interested. Thank you for your offer, but no thanks.

[penkallli]

@frid9999

Historians agree that prophet Muhamed existed, he also performed miracles, ur trying belief in miracles with actual existence of the man

U cant say they all invented a man Jesus to worship and follow, the miracles if u dont believe in them are explained away as people myth about a historical person

[SamiZaatari]

@SonofJaphet and none of what you are writing addresses the points I made. I repeat, the canon you now regard as scripture was not always the cannon, it came into existence centuries after Jesus, and many books within it were not accepted by others, and they had their own bibles and their own books in which they regarded it to be holy scripture, your cannon and your books are just one of many, this is a historical fact. 

[SonofJaphet]

@SamiZaatari When a Gnostic denies the divinity of Jesus he is not a Christian but a follower of the first gnostic teacher Simon Magus the real founder of the Catholic cult.Is nt it curious that those Gnostic writtings calls Mary the holy virgin like the Catholics and in the Qu ran you venerate her ?Nowhere in the Textus Receptus there is a verse saying 'Mary the holy virgin' only the Catholic and Muslims have a veneration for her

[SonofJaphet]

@JabrilAbdullah The Catholic cult was a heresy before it became big ,only in the gnostic scriptures we find the origin of the Marian worship 'O holy virgin' and things like that ,nowhere in the Bible Mary is called holy or mother of God ,Btw you too have a veneration for Mary in your Qu ran is nt that curious?

[SamiZaatari]

@SonofJaphet your cannon of the Bible was just one of many, and not every Christian of the time accepted it, there were many other books and beliefs of other Christians, so you can call them heretical or gnostic all you want, those terms don't mean nothing to people who aren't in your camp of Christianity.

[SamiZaatari]

@SonofJaphet actually many of the jewish 'folk tales' came AFTER the Quran, Islamic-Awareness have already written on this topic. As for the gnostic teachings, who decides these people are heretics or not? They may have incorporated some truths into their books, and secondly the Quranic accounts are not identical at all to those Christian writings, yes, CHRISTIAN WRITINGS, they were Christian books written by Christian believers, you can say Gnostic all you like, but they were Christians.

[SonofJaphet]

@JabrilAbdullah Stiil we do find Jewish folk tales,heretical christian ,Hindoo,Zoroastrian and Manichean stories in the Qu ran thus making it man made

[JabrilAbdullah]

@SonofJaphet This matter has been debated before.

But, the funny thing is; who get's to decide what's "gnostic" and what's "authentic" in Christianity? Did Jesus(p) leave a table of contents on which books are reliable and which ones aren't? Were the church fathers, who compiled the Catholic bible, divinely inspired? What about the christians who 'copy and paste' ancient manuscripts together to compile their modern bibles today; are they divinely inspired?

[JabrilAbdullah]

Salaam Alaykum, akhi.

Nice debate. I think it could have been organized better though. Michael seems to be a bit irritated at the organization and the decorum. I agree that the questions raised should be relevant to what the speaker presented, so that time won't be wasted going in circles.

I think Brother Sami did a great job. And the MDI for their intervening. May ALLAH(swt) accept their efforts.

[SonofJaphet]

@SamiZaatari There should be a debate on the subject of the Gnostic origins of Islam

[SamiZaatari]

@SonofJaphet that's not even the topic of the debate. it has nothing to do with the debate.