Legalization of Torture Part 2

Modern methods of torture are specifically designed NOT to leave any obvious visible marks. Less physical evidencein this regard. Primitive techniques included using blow-torches to sensitive parts of the body, or pulling out of finger nails, or gouging out an eye or two. Well, things have evolved since then.

The newer methods do not only include water-boarding (a simulated drowning), actually an ancient technique practiced during the Spanish Inquisition + also practiced in Asia (commonly referred to as Chinese Water-Torture), but also being caged in a small tiny box, with temperatures reaching 100 Fahrenheit for days on end, or equally stressful positions, such as being hooked up to a ceiling, being beaten occasionally, under the supervision of medical personnel, for MONTHS on end.

Various governmental sources have stated, that this type of treatment does not amount to torture, because major organs were either not damaged ( except for a few mistakes), and that furthermore, it poses no lasting harm to the prisoner in ANY way, not even psychologically. Here are the ACTUAL memos , which provide the LEGAL cover for this. I urge you to read them, slowly, and one by one. On a quiet night, with no tv or music in the background. One lawyer actually advocated the kidnapping of the children of a suspected terrorist, and then placing this kid amongst insects, which the child is afraid of, in order to gain information about relatives. And this same lawyer, Bybee is now a judge in one of the highest courts in our land, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Read these memos, and then tell mewhether we should just look ahead as Obama says, or that it amounts to retribution , when the laws of this nation should be applied to everyone equally, no matter how HIGH up they are.

Here are the memos:

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/olc_memos.html

These documents are publicly available, not just through the ACLU and for those of you, who have a beef with the ACLU these are actual DOCUMENTS without any commentary . I urge you to read these memos in DETAIL, and then imagine yourself or one of your loved ones, within this type of scenario. Wrongly accused, by some other country or nation.

Last, but not least, I am NOT against our troops or soldiers, what I am against, is that they are being used as cannon fodder. Just as the world silently witnessed the events of 1935, the entire world bears witness now not only to the facts of what is Guantánamo , Baghram and other secret detention centers, but more importantly, our response to this.
While we decried the same types of abuses in Communist Russia under Stalin and elsewhere, we remain silent, when our own officials provide legal justification for this.
Two wrongs do not make right and it is height of hypocrisy and arrogance, to let our own government off the hook on this.
At the opening session to the Nuremberg Trials, Justice Jackson, exclaimed, We must never forget that the record on which we judge these defendants today is the record on which history will judge us tomorrow.
The world is waiting for the American people to stand up for the right thing, even if our own government does not do it. Speak out, speak up. Torture is NOT a left wing/right wing issue or debate - it is matter of human decency it is morally indefensible and must NOT be condoned by people in ANY nation. Ever. No matter how persuasive some TV program, such as 24 might be, it goes completely against the very principles of our nation. It cannot be condoned or excused.

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[SurvivalWithBushcraf]

No long paragraph from me just this. 

NO TORTURE!!!!!!!

[55ella2007k]

Exactly. The Dept of Justice just cleared Jay Bybee + John Yoo , the two lawyers who wrote the infamous torture memos, of any wrong doing and professional misconduct. This is outrageous. And Bybee is now a sitting federal judge on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, one the highest courts in the land.

[jinjin16]

torture will always be present regardless of right or wrong for the reason of its effectiveness. as long as there is a military there is torture.

[55ella2007k]

jinjin16: this depends on how you define 'effectiveness'

Please realize, that not all members of the military are in favor of torture, for the simple reason, that it will impact them as well. I guess, I will need to do follow-up vid on this, expressing the opinions of highly trained military professionals regarding the SERE training program. In the meantime, do some studying on your own. You do not win the hearts + minds of the perceived 'enemy' via torture...quite the opposite is true.

[jinjin16]

I did not make this comment to get praises or a plus on the icon. I am merely making a statement that torture has always been present and will always be present as long as there is a military force in any country. Can someone tell me a time in history where a military force has never used torture?

My point is as long as there are military conflicts in the world, there will always be torture as a process of intimidation and or info gathering. The rest are politics and public opinion. sorry.

[55ella2007k]

jinjin16: no, I understand your point. The same can be said of discrimination - this has also happened throughout history. Does this then imply that we cannot at least try to change this? Should we just shrug our shoulders and just forget about it? I for one, cannot do this.

[darkkittycry]

I've said this like 50 times in comments, but I'll say it again. TORTURE NEVER WORKS because people will confess to ANYTHING when tortured. Torture is a method that just gives the state a warm body to blame for something...they don't care if guilt exists.

[laurieannek]

Torture is proven it doesn't work. The US has engaged in this since the Koran war (per someone who told me, he was an x black op).  if the US soliders didn't allow the torture they would be killed and then call it an accident or say the person took their own life.

The US should not allow torture (period).

[pirbird14]

If the US government were truly opposed to torture, they would have shut down the School of the Americas a long time ago.

[GOTTshua]

All members of senate and congress are bought and paid for (minor exemptions of a few). There will be no action through them. They are only good at inaction in the guise of action while banking their enormous paychecks & loving their benefits.

Public servant for the people?\

Don't make me laugh.

[GOTTshua]

This country will NEVER admit or take responsibility for any covert torture, be it against native tribes, the Black Panthers, or any other citizen, or earthling.

One day soon, this nation will stand alone before God, and then there will be no excuse, passing the buck, or historical blanket apology that amounts to squat.

[jinjin16]

It is a nice and noble thing what you are trying to attempt but unfortunately a waste of energy to be honest. I strongly believe that there is only one way to solve such problems such as discrimination, racism and torture as such and that is economic prosperity and fair trade (not free trade with how todays free trade function)

True capitalism at its ethical form that incorporate other isms that can benefit all citizens. That is the real challenge and the rest will fall in to place.

[55ella2007k]

Furthermore, the entire foundation of western law, is based on the non-admittance of evidence obtained under torture or co-ersive techniques since the age of enlightenment, hundreds of years ago. Our entire nation was founded on these principles - REGARDLESS of what other nations practice. Two wrongs cannot make a right. The rationalization, that if others DO it, then we should do it as well, flies in the face of every human rights argument we EVER made + it is nothing less than hypocrisy.