Religion was not the problem in Northern Ireland

Religion was not the major source of conflict in Northern Ireland. Unfortunately for those who wish to use the conflict as an example of the 'dangers' of religion, the reality is a lot more complex.

The Plantation Of Ulster http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/plantation/

The Civil Rights Movement
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/recent/troubles/the_troubles_article_01.shtml

The Penal Laws
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11611c.htm
'Although the penal laws of Ireland were passed by a Protestant Parliament and aimed at depriving Catholics of their faith, such laws were not the outcome of religious motives only. They often came from a desire to possess the lands of the Irish, from impatience at their long resistance, from the contempt of a ruling for a subject race. '

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• joebot1

[joebot1]

ok, firstly, I didn't say religion was the problem, I said quite clearly that religion has made the problem much worse!!.

your essentially strawmanning my point!. If you want to argu that this isn't a territorial dispute, fine, I disagree, but that we can debate, but please don't put words into my mouth!.

[ballyboneman]

@joebot1 I stated quite clearly that you thought that religion exascerbated the divisions here. I'm not putting words in your mouth. It is evident from the very fact that you make videos decrying religion and its influence that you do think religion is the problem. You are not making videos about nationalism, patriotism, capitalism, socialism, imperialism, expansionism or any of the other isms or worldviews that bring untold misery to millions.

[ballyboneman]

@joebot1 " If you want to argu that this isn't a territorial dispute, fine, I disagree" based on what exactly?

[Sherwulff]

we hear a lot of the protestant vs catholic bit over here in the US as to the discord in your neck of the woods as well. but the way you lay out the argument seems clear to me that there is a lot more to it than religious convictions - power and resources as you say.

[ballyboneman]

@Sherwulff People don't like 'complicated'. They want 'this is good, that is bad' and that is one of the major reasons why it takes such a fuckin' long time for shit to get sorted out.

[marleyboro]

nice vid

[ballyboneman]

@marleyboro Cheers

[DaveAllenDaveAllen]

@TheAzov I wouldn't deny that it probably has roots in a colonialist exercise, though by the time of partition we are talking about a population who have had no other home for generations. I think Irish history would be a much happier subject had the Irish been left to self-determine from the time of the Normans onwards - but that doesn't alter the fact that the majority of the inhabitants of Ulster identify as British rather than Irish and have done so for well over a century.

[TheAzov]

@DaveAllenDaveAllen The Protestant plantation was about establishing a loyal British community to hold down Irish rebellion in Ulster: a human investment, to complement and build the economic one. They've never had any choice but to cling to Britain for their survival - much to their own dismay at times.

[DaveAllenDaveAllen]

@TheAzov I'm sure Britian at the time was happy to retain the Belfast shipyards - though I doubt Ulster would have remained part of the United Kingdom were it not for a sizable Protestant majority in Northern Ireland who did not identify as Irish and lobbied to remain in the UK.

[TheAzov]

Britain demanded to keep Ulster because of the heavy British investment, especially in the ship-building industry. The nationalists demanded it be part of Ireland to give the Free State economy an industrial base.

[AtheistsUNItd]

Very nice. A message which needs to be heard.

[adambelfast1]

@NITRANCE2011 yeah but not because of their religion because of their national identity, nationailist (who are irish) on one side and the unionist (who are british) on the other side, like he said religion played its part in the troubles but it wasnt the cause of the troubles in NI

[ukuk2012ukukuk2012uk]

religion was A problem but not the full problem there were many problems or troubles thats why its called the troubles not the trouble or problem but i dont see them problems anymore well most of them...

[MrBab91]

@MrBab91 wont go much further , we could all do 2000 word essays on the matter. Just nice to see a proper discussion of youtube about it rather than have smicks USEING CAPS KAT OR ALL HUNS OUT

[MrBab91]

To discount a religon as a point of contension is unbalanced.

There is no one reason and you will not find one reason for the "troubles" As you said.

There is the fact of socialy and economicaly the new ruleing class was the protestant population and the fall out of that brings along with it. Adding to the sectarian elelment and relgious unrest Historical grievances , loss of sovereignty. The english class system the reviveal of irish national identy in the 19th century.

[UlsterScotKeith]

Religion WASN'T the cause of the troubles. It played a part in the picking out of people to kill but it didn't start the troubles. A reality check people.