TFC09 Dr. Victor J. Stenger

Nick Lee, VP of the TFC introduces Dr. Victor J. Stenger, Atheist author.

Here's part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aUs2Bbie_4

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[dfpolis]

@aajoeyjo Analogical thinking lies at the heart of human rationality. In it we compare similar cases. I am a physicist. Such illustrations come naturally to me and bolster my confidence in God's existence. We do not see evolution, electrons, neutrinos, the big bang, etc. We reason to them. if you do not see this, you do not understand science. I recommend my video #15 as backing up to my claim. It is also humorous. Peace

[aajoeyjo]

@dfpolis - Can you really not discuss one topic at a time? It's not that hard.

To inject a scientific topic is really dishonest. If science tried hard to find God, it wouldn't look for "data" to "deduce" things from. It would look for God. Religion doesn't seem to think God is relevant in the search for...God. That's far from being scientific, but it seems to be universal among all devout Christians: You can't understand why someone would want you to back up your God claim, with that God.

[aajoeyjo]

@dfpolis - I agree. Finally! :o)

[dfpolis]

@aajoeyjo Neutrinos exemplify something which cannot be sensed but which are known to science by deduction from evidence. God is another example. You seem not to know what objective verification means (or you would not reject the neutrino example). You also seem not to know when it is required. Verification is only required by hypotheses, not deductions. We deduce the existence of God from data, as seen in my video #15. Since I use scientific thinking, do you reject science as well?

[dfpolis]

@aajoeyjo Yes, some reject what rational people consider settled because it runs contrary to their prejudices. Creationists and atheists illustrate this. You can use whatever evidence you like. If you watched my video #15, you will know that evidence is useless to those who do not know how to use it.

[aajoeyjo]

@dfpolis - No. I don't mean produce some evidence of God. I mean produce God. I don't care about neutrinos, that's a deflection.

I ask Christians to produce their god, and they don't understand. It's like the very idea of objective verification is alien to them. Therein lies the very real lower level of thinking in religious people. No offense. Just think more...

[aajoeyjo]

@dfpolis - God is a fact required by scientific logic? Yet here we are still debating if he even existed at all, anywhere, ever.

Why can't I verify God's existence by reading the Bible? Is it insufficient? As thick as it is?? lol

[dfpolis]

@aajoeyjo I assume by "produce" you mean give irrefutable evidence for. Of course, God, like neutrinos, will never be directly perceived by human senses. We come to know both by deduction from the data of their specific effects. There is also a more experiential path to God, the transcultural phenomenon of mystical experience. (See W.T Stace, Mysticism and Philosophy, for an introduction). As a physicist I denigrated mystical experience, but Stace's evidence change my mind. Peace, DP

[dfpolis]

@aajoeyjo TY for your reply. Since Aristotle wrote his Metaphysics we have known that God must exist given the foundations of science. God a fact required by scientific logic. My next video will show this. Meanwhile you can read it my 2010 JIS article, "Mind or Randomness in Evolution" (xianphil.org/Intent_evol.htm - see the section "GOD AND SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION"). You will also see that evolution provides excellent evidence for pre-existing target forms and confirms Aristotle's teleology

[aajoeyjo]

@dfpolis - Continued. And that's the larger point I would like to make to religious people. You can cure a disease, you can feed the hungry, you can give hope to a dying person. But you can NEVER produce your god. Not for me, not for that dying person, not even for yourself.

Without a god...whatsoever, exactly why do religious people build churches, and manufacture crosses, and rosaries? Without a god, why do religious people STILL wage war...over that god they don't have? It's a scam!