Greg Bahnsen vs Stein - The Great Debate (part 8 of 14)

Greg Bahnsen vs Gordon Stein - The Great Debate: Does God Exist? (part 8 of 14)

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[itiswritten77]

@iTeoglobite

Ur hero lost and was constantly deviating from the topic of the argument

[WolfSyndrome]

7:58 "Why are they so useful?"

A: Because we think they are.

[thervltn]

We are left with one ascension story.

I am by no means an expert but I would be happy to carry on a more lengthy discussion with you via email if you are genuinely interested in a search for the answers to some more of the obstacles that have troubled you with Christianity.

[thervltn]

Mark 16 9-20 are not part of the original but an addition added later on. The 2 most trustworthy versions of the NT end abruptly at verse 8. Many do not know this but anyone with a study bible will see this in the commentary.

So were left with Luke and Acts, which interestingly enough have the same author and were one book. The brief ascension story in Luke is written in a different hand and is believed by scholars to have been added when Luke-Acts was separated into the two books.

[JanJiska]

Mark 16:14-19 - Jesus ascends while he and his disciples are seated at a table in or near Jerusalem

Matthew 28:16-20 - Jesus ascension isnt mentioned at all, but Matthew ends at a mountain in Galilee

Luke 24:50-51 - Jesus ascends outisde, after dinner, and at Bethany and on the same day as the resurrection

John - Nothing about Jesus ascension is mentioned

Acts 1:9-12 - Jesus ascends at least 40 days after his resurrection, at Mt. Olivet

[JanJiska]

I am sorry. You are correct they do not disagree on whether he ascended. I misremembered.

They disagree on where and when it happened and some do not mention it at all:

[thervltn]

v. 20-34 Speaks of Christ raising from the dead so that all will be made alive v.35-50 concerns the dead on earth and our resurrected bodies v.51-58 talks of those who will not yet be dead when the rapture takes place.

[thervltn]

They do not disagree on the important points (e.g. whether Jesus bodily ascended) The only place I am aware of that could possibly be construed as a disagreement on that matter would be Paul's letter to the Corinth to which he explains in chapter 15 that our heavenly bodies will differ from our earthly bodies (v.38 the body God has chosen v.36 like the former v.39-41 yet different v.42 imperishable v.49 in the image of the heavenly)

[JanJiska]

But where they disagree (e.g. whether Jesus bodily ascended) are important points which should stick in the mind, things like who was there and how they got in should be easy to remember.

How could they get so many details wrong and still not be discounted?

Simple, people have already made their minds up. No one expects word for word matches but to have as many details wrong as they have (including whether zombies rose from the grave) is absurd.

[thervltn]

P.S. Those are the words of Daniel B. Wallace, PH.D. Who is actually one of the world's leading experts in ancient Greek, and foremost authorities on textual criticism.

Your statement is correct, exact stories suggest collusion and would discredit the authenticity of an event, in history and in modern schools of thought. The bible is a book revealing God in his ways, man in his need, and God's provision to meet man in his need. I think you will find it accomplishes that without disagreement.