Challenging TVP Part 2

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Response to: http://tvpchallenge.blogspot.com/2011/06/response-to-jacobspinneys-response.html

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• JacobSpinney
• venus
• project
• resource
• based
• economy
• zeitgeist
• movement
• tvp
• rbe
• tzm
• criticism

[brightgeistmovies]

a market system NEVER increases compassion. a market system is a game, whose very few winners get to live well, while the many losers don't even get to eat or drink clean water.

as soon as people are in a system where one person benefits from taking things away from other people (legally = "market success", or illegally = "crime"), the system will automatically produce competition and corruption, and not empathy and compassion.

[JacobSpinney]

@brightgeistmovies A market system does not involve taking things away from other people. That is what the state does. A market system involves trading things with other people under mutually beneficial terms.

[brightgeistmovies]

@JacobSpinney : you should actually know that that isn't true. one side of a trade will ALWAYS get more than they give, and the other side will obviously give more than they get. if you assume that both sides get something out of the trade, then that would mean that "value" is created out of thin air on both sides of the trade, which is clearly not the case. this also explains why one side of any trade will usually refuse to reverse the trade under the same original terms.

[JacobSpinney]

@brightgeistmovies Nonsense. Value is subjective. It is determined by the parties engaged in the trade. Not you. Not me. Let's say that I'm really good at producing apples. But I actually like oranges. Let's also say that you're really good at producing oranges, but you actually like apples. Thus, I'm willing to trade one of my apples for one of your oranges and you are too. We BOTH benefit. Indeed, it is a necessity that we both benefit, otherwise the trade would not have been initiated.

[brightgeistmovies]

@JacobSpinney : too bad that your over-simplistic kindergarten examples never happen in our REAL economy. in reality, one side of a trade is usually forced by economic pressure to do the trade, because otherwise they wouldn't get anything at all. if you still don't understand that, just let me know, then i can give you as many REAL examples for that as you want (not apples for oranges), just name the number.

[JacobSpinney]

@brightgeistmovies Right, so the vast majority of the population in the US are so poor that they can't afford air conditioning, they can't afford a refrigerator, they have to live in communal homes with 5 people per bedroom, and all they can afford is the slop that is divvied out in a food kitchen somewhere. Is that what you're saying?

[JacobSpinney]

@brightgeistmovies Because I'm quite sure that that is empirically false. Most people in the US are not anywhere near that poor, and they have plenty of financial choices they're able to make with their lives. That in all of the historical examples we have of anything coming close to a free market, the standard of living has continually increased from where it was previously.

[TVPchallenge]

@JacobSpinney " The root cause is a lack of respect for legitimate property rights." This is rather vague. 1st of all, what is considrered "legitimate," and by whom? 2nd, as I explained in my blog, how can we expect people to just "respect" other peoples' property when they don't have access to the things they want/need? It's funny the RBE is mocked as being too "scientifically efficient" (compared to a lobotomy in the comments) yet you would need to lobotomize people to meet your expectations.

[DesecrateConformity]

@JacobSpinney JacobSpinney: I agree with everything you say in this video, but I think that you should have pointed out that individual scarcity would become exacerbated in a resource-based economy because there would be no variety in the products at all. They would all become homogenized, just like in any non-free market socialist economy.

[DesecrateConformity]

@TVPchallenge Lol. Will your collective technocracy respect individuals' dignity and individuality? I think not. A society with a resource-based economy would spiral into collapse instantaneously.

[DesecrateConformity]

JacobSpinney OWNS The Venus Project and these arrogant Fresco Youth, period.

[rebelq1]

@weavermama

Can you give me the link to a video?

[weavermama]

@rebelq1 G edward griffin does a pretty good job of explaining it. Also check out Mises media.

[machwon]

@RenewableFuel

1.You know I'm not a troll because if I was you wouldn't be "feeding" me. So you're lying.

2. I don't jerk off to child porn, you do. This is just that racist pedo 18YEARSANDOLDER's sock puppet account. I see my blog post exposing you made you ditch your old account. Welcome back.

[RenewableFuel]

@machwon It's not a valid objection if it has been debunked countless amounts of times, over and over. You have no arguments, which is why you run a blog website that can only smear TVP and resource based economy from angles that require no logic, thinking or reasoning. How about you go back there with all your other troll buddies and jerk off to some of that child porn you got. That's why you're against a resource based economy, you don't want to lose your kiddie porn in the transition.

[machwon]

@RenewableFuel No, its not trolling. I provided a valid objection, you reacted like a closed minded groupie.. tell me how my original objection is invalid without receding me to read more TVP dogma (that I've already read, mind you)

[RenewableFuel]

@machwon Again, you're trolling me for a reaction. See Venus Project website FAQ if you're serious.

[machwon]

@RenewableFuel Troll is TZM 'cult' lingo for people who don't agree with everything that comes out of Merola's mouth. This is why OWS has been calling you a cult. It's not because it is one, it's because you act like one. Why not address what I argued instead of this black and white knee jerk reaction of calling people who have valid arguments trolls.