Bible, real facts? 1

Part 1

Category:

Comedy

Tags:

• pen
• teler

[theenforcer1977]

Modern day Christianity is like a software agreement. Nobody reads the book they just scroll down and click I accept.

[SoftwareTheft]

religion leads directly to idiocracy. we're half way there already.

[guerrillaroach]

@MPWorthMcEwan (Cont’d) Biblical morality is at best a mixed bag, with slavery, genocide, gender inequality, contradictions, blood sacrifice, horrific tests (Abraham and Isaac), and so on...10 commandments, 612 laws of Moses, and so on.... The Bible condones abhorrent deeds by today’s standards showing the ultimate flaw in your assertion. Secular humanist morality is not only superior to anything found in religion; unlike religion it evolves easily with further enlightenment.

[guerrillaroach]

@MPWorthMcEwan (Cont'd) Considering all the extraordinary claims you make, regarding gods hand in law and morality, some proof might needed, after all, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Otherwise, how else can one tell truth form fiction? "If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." – Albert Einstein

[guerrillaroach]

@MPWorthMcEwan Do you not see that all you suggest is subjective? You credit your god with great deeds and in the same breath; admit no empirical proof is possible. You can walk a mile in a man’s shoes but not a second in his mind.

[MPWorthMcEwan]

@adam3251 (cont'd) So, I think that the entire enterprise to prove or disprove God on the basis of natural order is wrong-headed from the outset. I think the fact that there is order is reflective of his nature, but, I think that if there is this transcendent God, then we cannot "catch his hand" and then put it on display. No. I think we can only come into contact with him if he reaches down to us first--and indeed, I speak from within a tradition that claims this very thing occurred.

[MPWorthMcEwan]

@adam3251 (cont'd) I want to avoid arguing from my personal experience, but, admittedly, the spiritual things I've experienced do play a role. (I do think that Dawkin's naturalist explanation for altruism is unsatisfactory, though). I use the ordinary/extraordinary distinction because I think that everyday laws are also the work of God. I think God works as much in gravity as in the miraculous. So, I don't see miracle as a suspension of law; no "natural law" is ontological, in my view.

[MPWorthMcEwan]

@adam3251 I may be making an argument from ignorance--I make no claims on being an expert on evolution. In fairness, youtube is a very restricting way to have this conversation. There are many other things I would like to say. Perhaps some of them would be more compelling than the examples I chose. I thoroughly agree with your statement regarding answers. Obviously neither science nor secular philosophy can ever admit a theistic answer--they must proceed with methodological naturalism.

[adam3251]

@MPWorthMcEwan My point was that there has never been a question that was answered by a purely secular non-theist, totally naturalistic answer that is now satisfactorily answered by a religious, "extra-ordinary" answer. None. It is always the other way around. Human intuition in these matters is nearly always wrong. I leave you with Hume. "What seems more likely, that the laws of nature have been suspended in your favor, or that you are suffering from some kind of delusion?"

[adam3251]

@MPWorthMcEwan As to your first point regarding the difference between chimps and humans. This is well understood and has been explained quite thoroughly. It has to do with changing allele frequencies and population dispersal. I would suggest you read up on human evolution. As to your second point, "I think that it's reasonable to conclude..." With regards, you are wrong. You are making the classic Argument from Ignorance fallacy. You also made no attempt to answer my question. (continued)

[MPWorthMcEwan]

@adam3251 (continued) I think it's reasonable to conclude that "something more is going on." Let me be clear: I do not think that you can prove God exists--much less my Christian God (I am not making a case for him). A non-material example is the existential search for meaning in every human. Why is it that some of us will kill ourselves for lack of meaning? Has any other animal ever done that? I think this too, points to "more going on." But this warrants much deeper discussion.

[MPWorthMcEwan]

@adam3251 (continued) ...for a number of phenomena, some of them material and observable, and some of them personal and non-quantifiable. A material example may be the stark difference between humans and chimps. I of course agree that we evolved from a common ancestor according to natural selection, but though we share 99% of genetic information, we are very, very different: no chimp ever wrote a symphony, but neither did they ever invent an atomic bomb, for example. (continued)