Responsibility: Puzzle for Determinists

Note: My statements about the law in this video are not legal advice. Please do not, in reliance on my video, attempt to place poisonous spiders in your backyard. Thanks, and have a good one.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• H.L.A.
• Hart
• Criminal
• Law
• Responsibility
• Determinism
• Free
• Will

[MyContext]

Yuck... You have made me a compatiblist. I have fought Daniel Dennet's position...and you just made me one...:(

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Assuming determinism is true, the individual still must act as if it weren't. All actions must flow as if you had degrees of free will that acted or not, and the consequence of that act/inaction must be reviewed in the context and limits of what is understood/expected about the individual.

Social policy does allow the use of "determinism" (in limited fashion)...

[Haengma]

I would say, we can hold people 'responsible', but not in the same sense. We'd say they are responsible in the way a faulty girder might be 'responsible' for a bridge collapse. Their 'programming' allowed them to behave in a way we wouldn't consider a reasonable course of action.

[SseBb]

Everything is determined, simply by the laws of physics. Every effect has a cause, every cause has an effect. So no free will; so what is the solution in the second case: NECESSITY. Liberty requires Necessity; This is David Hume, read on more on Wikipedia.

[trick0171]

@legodesi

I don't think this matters. Thought is an event, an an event can only happen either A) causally or B) acausally. Again, the issue is not necessarily a physicalistic one, but rather one of logic.

That being said, and though I don't think it is necessary to show the physical property of neurons with intentional properties of thought to show the logic, I think that there is much evidence that neurons and such thoughts go hand and hand.

[legodesi]

@trick0171

i think this depends on whether you can allign intentional properties of thoughts with physical properties of neurons. I think that the best physicalist theory on the market hasn't done that - it hasn't integrated the content of thought into the causal relations between physical stuff that on the basic level is non-teleological and non-intentional.

[legodesi]

@ProfMTH

yeah, hope you'll be impressed with my mental gymnastics (attempt at self-deprecating humor)

[legodesi]

@legodesi

so... society should give them a second chance. i don't think in general, felony murder serves any of the traditional purposes of punishment, like retribution or deterrence (how do you deter an accident?) or rehabilitation (you could rehabilitate criminals without a life-sentence). i agree with the reasoning that the severer the punishment, the greater the attached stigma, and thus the greater necessity for a mens rea. what do you think?

[legodesi]

@ProfMTH

right, i agee that this video doesn't constitute by any stretch a proof of indeterminism.

Felony Murder: I think it's unjust if I'm sent to jail for life for murder if in the process of stealing a trophy from another football team, someone in my group accidentally dies, or causes the death of someone else. the policy seems to target teenagers, as well. teenagers don't appreciate the nature of their conduct as adults do, and they're still malleable in terms of their pursuits, so...

[college12003]

good explanation

[ProfMTH]

(con't) @legodesi "distinguishing foreknowledge/pre-destination"

I'd be very interested in seeing your effort on this.