Re: Omni VERSUS Omni!

This is the OMNIARGUMET!!!
Actually, it's just further evidence why I should always plan my videos word-for-word before making them. I make absolutely no sense otherwise...

Please forgive the copious cuts between 3:30-4:30. My camera ran out of batteries, and then I completely lost my place.

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Here's my argument in a more formal form.

1) God is said to be perfect.
2) God is said to be omnipotent.
3) A perfect nature cannot be forced into imperfection.
4) An omnipotent nature has the power to impose anything on anyone.
5) Gods can either has the power to force himself into imperfection, or he does not.
6) Therefore, God cannot be both perfect in nature and omnipotent.

As I'm sure needs no pointing out, the most objectionable premise here is premise 3. I would be interested to see how theists define Gods perfection.

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[sampsonoff]

if God is timeless like you suggest, how can he also be omnipotent? without time, nothing our minds can comprehend exists; good, evil, life, death, light, dark ect... all concepts are only perceptible in relation to the past or future.

God cannot be timeless AND consciously affecting our physical reality.

Cause & affect = before & after = time: necessary for a "plan"

does that connect to what you were saying?

great vids by the way

[Clutchology]

Yes, of course. It all connects. The attribute of timelessness was meant to solve some problems and supposed contradictions in the theistic definition, but I think it causes more problems than it solves myself.

The concept basically dissolves all aspect of a 'personal' God from the definition.

[reclamationify]

@Clutchology i'm assuming that you are a theist,so i hope you don't mind if you answer a question to do with god.if god is supposedly omnipotent doesn't that create a paradox in it of itself?

for example if god is omnipotent can he create something indestructible?if so then he can't destroy it and he isn't omnipotent,if not then he cannot create something and thus also isn't omnipotent,what is you're opinion on this,because i think this refutes the hypothesis of omnipotence.

[Clutchology]

@reclamationify I'm actually an atheist, but in answer to your question, we haven't really found anything "indestructible." We only know of things we do not have the strength/precision to break. I'm not totally convinced an "indestructible" thing could exist. Maybe a god could no more create one than a squared circle.

But omnipotence is a weak concept too. A better question would perhaps be: could God kill himself? Because surely an all-powerful being cannot be killed, but can kill anything.

[zbambam5]

I love how atheists make far better arguments for god than any theist could ever make.

[dnoohi]

Point is if he is timeless and all powerful why rest?

Why take 7 human days for this action when there is no days from his perspective?

Possible answer is to push the week days agreement to the public by telling these stories but lets not go there, that's too real.

[Cootabux]

Im back & wanna say 1 more thing about slavery then I'll drop it.

I just want 2 say than in the 4 yrs I've been debating theology, Ive only met 1 Xian who was honest about this stuff..

Lets face it, u pick the warm & fuzzy verses on slavery, I pick the worst. but my reasons R different than yours. You're overlooking the worst. The reason I choose the worst is bcuz, the Judeo slash Xian religion & god, is as only as good & righteous as it's worst deeds!! Yahweh has 3; Murder, Misogyny, & slavery

[Cootabux]

How do you control man? By creating fear in his life! How do you do that? By creating an all powerful, all knowing god...and angry, vengeful god! And it worked...back then. it won't work today. We know to much. This is why we don't see any evidence for any gods today!! And we won't!

[zapo147]

How is having the power to fuck up make you more powerful?

[A5Hellcat]

I disagree with what you said but you really made me think. think TBS had the better argument, but good job!

[MsExoticBliss]

Yes if GOd has the power to create Satan that was an imperfect act in my opinion. Not all people believe God's acts are "perfect" according to human standards of perfect but people feel well since He's God whatever He does is perfect. So yes God is capable of doing anything.

[HConstantine]

Plotinus got this right. Since action is impossible outside of time (cause and effect), then God can't act. Actions (like creation, salvation) is left to lesser beings. Everything you're going on about, can god do this or do that, is off the point. God can't do. Action is imperfect so its not part of it's nature (and you, the usual Neoplatonic term for god is a grammatical neuter: to on or the one).

[Epydemic2020]

Very intelligent video.

I just finishing making a response to omni vs omni.

I attempt to refute the idea that omnipotence and omniscience (of God) are logically contradictory. I realize there are two ways of refuting it, but I figured the argument for God being outside of time would be to complicated to explain. You did a pretty good job of it tho.

My video really addresses your point as well tho. You might find it interesting. It is "omni vs omni and really big rocks"

[Venaloid]

3:15 - Doesn't that mean that he was always the creator of the Earth? Because if that's the case, then either God is only 6,000 years old, or the Earth is timeless.