Ravi Zacharias answers the big questions prt 1

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[GiordanosRetort]

I'm a poly-theist and I think every thing Ravi is saying is completely none-sense.

1 - Ravi assumes Form and Information are created out of nothing by an intelligence in to the universe instead of being innate attributes arisen out of the universe.

2 - He assumes that human morality is "the" morality which in turn needs be given because of the fact that it exists.

Any questions or comments?

[psykojojo]

@GiordanosRetort Thank you for watching! If you have nothing higher than yourself to anchor morality...a higher reference point, then there is no morality. If there is no God then all things are permitted. you'd be a fool to not live selfishly, why live a moral life if it doesn't exist. The animal kingdom thrives by doing so, dolphins rape, a lion will kill a cub so it cannot challenge later. Outside of God there is no morality

[psykojojo]

@GiordanosRetort if you believe that this 'IDEA' of morality that we have has a naturalistic explanation....well theres no reason to acknowledge it. sure live by it when it benefits you, but do as you please in secret.

[psykojojo]

@GiordanosRetort when has information and form (not a cloud that sorta kinda looks like a horse) ever come from nature? he assumes form and information is a direct result of intelligence because thats what our repeated observations of the universe shows us. you can say 'form and info doesn't need intelligence' but you need to offer some kind of example. Science teaches that info rich systems (like DNA) comes from intelligence

[wertguy]

if there is a moral law there is a moral giver there is good and evil if u accept there is evil there is good as well amen!!!!!!!!! this is so true! there is a god

[psykojojo]

@wertguy agreed!

[psykojojo]

@SuperCan0 well whats your biggest objection to christianity or theism. what exactly comes off as a 'story' to you, do you understand the premises of his arguements?

[GiordanosRetort]

@psykojojo To explain where I’m coming from, so hopefully I make myself clearer, my main deity is not the creator of the human species but a far distant ancestor of mine within it who embodies its self in natural forms as well as abstract ideals and the universe we live in an organism which is not simply material but also conscious. Nothing is separate in this model. Thanks for asking your questions!

[GiordanosRetort]

@psykojojo Hence I see what I do in and about the world because it was useful to my ancestors.

Furthermore if we take in to account Morphogenetic Field theory then we don’t need to be created but instead pulled history with an end goal, while unclear, could take the forms that we see in our every day lives.

[GiordanosRetort]

@psykojojo Two are non-living yet all of them use the same mathematical and physical laws to create what the human brain recognizes as form. Apart from that - if my ancestors bread so as to create and intelligence that better understood form and pattern, not exclusively of corse, then it shows me that taking this line of reasoning back in to my genetic line will result in the building upon previous systems of orders and magnitude with in regards to the recognition of pattern and form. ->

[GiordanosRetort]

@psykojojo Perhaps you think there is only one way to live without a deity because you started from the philosophical vantage point of there only being one right way to live, so as to please your own deity.

With the realization of Fractal and Chaos mathematical theory we can understand that form doesn’t simply rise in a static state but is innately self replicating - giving the sense of information. Compare the forms of crystalline structures, river flow & tree’s with one another. ->

[GiordanosRetort]

@psykojojo This, however, simply weakens what your saying with your alternate life style which seems to makes sense to you if indeed there is no moral authority above man.

Consciousness in this sense would be, that which is allowed by the human cerebral cortex to manifest it’s self in greater complexity than other spices.

You would be a fool to think that there is only one way to live in all human circumstances and periods in history/time if indeed there is no author of human morality. ->

[GiordanosRetort]

@psykojojo I disagree with your “need for an anchor of morality” assumption on the grounds that both innate, as well as calculated, human morality can spring from human consciousness & collective consciousness, which set’s him apart from other animals, as well as social modalities, which in part have a evolutionary use for an individuals lineage or even the over all species. Though social use of morality can also be used to further ideals, abstractions, and not necessarily genes. ->