Gerald Cohen: Rescuing Conservatism

Political philosopher, G.A. Cohen, on Rescuing Conservatism: A Defence of Existing Value. His lecture was presented by the Centre for Ethics at the University of Toronto on Oct. 16, 2008.

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[Flame230]

Yeap, and to think that I thought I knew English...

[Oneiricist]

@iaatxe Right, so then it's seems entirely unfeasable (or moot) to mount a general defense of intrinsic value as against instrumental value in general. You can clearly do this on a case by case basis, but that will ultimately depend on a community of co-believers in the intrinsic value of the object in question, in which case the argument is already half-won by the given circumstances. Not to mention that it's hard to ignore the instrumental value of doing so (i.e. conservation as such).

[iaatxe]

@Oneiricist The instrumental value has no intrinsic value. It's only comparable in terms of other things' instrumental values that serve the same goal. Things' intrinsic values are richly qualitative and particular to a specific perspective in place and time. They can only be compared imperfectly. Preferable / unpreferable depends entirely on one's perspective.

[Oneiricist]

Not to equivocate, but how can something ultimately unpreferable be in any meaningful sense "better"? Isn't he just placing "sentimental value" (intrinsically valuing the familiar) higher than "instrumental value"? Thus everything familiar by that measure actually *is* better, unless I decide a thing's instrumental value outweighs its sentimental value; but this seems very difficult to enact at the social level...

[tomitstube]

@agorlewski ~ lol, what do you mean by "rigorous"?

[tomitstube]

@simbatheuns ~ and that is the fundamental error of the so-called "free" market. deals that are between people always affect someone else. it's a rock in pond, there are ripple effects to every transaction. that's what a cowboy conservatist free market completely misses. it claims to be a fairness doctrine by some invisible equaling. nothing is further from the truth. how can anyone think a deal between bp and conservative politicians won't possibly have colossal collateral damage?

[simbatheuns]

@tomitstube You sum Cohen's thesis as "against destroying one thing to get a perceived "better" thing", but you are missing the point I think. It is "against destroying one thing in order to get an actual better thing - as long as that is not a demand of something so important as, say, justice" or, Qualified conservation of existing value in the light of that which has more value by criteria other than existence.

[Riboh1]

There seems to be no coflict between Marxism and 'small-c conservatism' that Jerry Cohen favours. Indeed, he says he is trying to RESCUE 'small-c conservatism' from 'Conservetives'.

[SuperWillHatch]

@marxotube

I know, that threw me through a loop at first too.

[tomitstube]

doesn't liberal traditionalism have intrinsic value and need to be "conserved"? it's funny how it's socialist liberals want to conserve the natural world while free market conservatives put making money above it's preservation. which goes to the heart of cohen's argument against destroying one thing to get a perceived "better" thing. so in fact, it's conservatives who are fundamentally wrong in their assessment, ex: that elephants should be killed to make ivory crosses of jesus.