I.33

I.33

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[AwsomeKwatchy]

@quixoteknight Correct you are. Thats what I like to do, test out what I say. But sadly I am a mere 14 year old and cant afford very much stuff.

[quixoteknight]

However the the real question is does this fit with I33? Experimentation is what we need! Science is a good thing! sparring can help. We need to look at this like Darwin, will the swordsman that believes in the use of a larger buckler have a developmental advantage or the one who uses a lighter one which is quicker but easy to smack around?

People have such a problem with ego that they are afraid to put their ideas to the test. Public debate and testing is what the WMA need more of, like here.

[quixoteknight]

The shifting of the buckler at full extension from the top to the bottom or side of the sword hand would place considerable weight on the shoulders (trapezious and deltoid muscles as well as the triceps) if they were as heavy as I know they could be.

To play devils advocate however, as with a heavier rapier, a heavier buckler would make it harder for the opponent to push it around so the larger bucklers could have that advantage.

[quixoteknight]

Now we have a question, does it matter the size of buckler we use in I33 and this question came out of your statement that a smaller buckler is required for Marrozzo which I agreed with so now we have a proper question to be tested experimentally through practice with various diameter bucklers.

My Hypothesis is that a smaller, lighter buckler would be preferable in this system due to the extension of the shield arm to meet the sword hand mid cut or thrust many of the plates portray.

[quixoteknight]

@AwsomeKwatchy I never said that it did, in fact my point was that size of the buckler in this system was less important than you suggested. The main reason that I continued on this tack was to see what reasoned arguments we could bounce off each-other. People like to ignore rational discourse in favor of their own ideas without testing those ideas so this seemed like an opportunity to try and develop a more coherent hypothesis on the system.

[AwsomeKwatchy]

@quixoteknight Agreed. I had merely read this somewhere on the internet. Does it really matter the size of the buckler? For I.33 whether you use one that has a 12" or a 15" diameter you can still use the same techniques laid out in I.33

[quixoteknight]

I33 also depicts quite a lot of thrusting and that suggests that the system would have evolved to combat thrusting so I don't see how a smaller Buckler would be needed for Marozzo as opposed to the Tower Fechtbuch due to this reason. I'm not saying a larger buckler wouldn't throw off Marrozzo's style but a Buckler in the I33 only really needs to act as a sort of floating basket hilt so it really doesn't need a big buckler either.

[quixoteknight]

Also, the pics in the I33 of the swords used by the monks are obviously sharply tapered and this is obviously for thrusting. Are you suggesting that Marrozzo didn't use cutting in his style? To train in such a way as to discount cutting is to court death. just because you are using a blade primarily for thrusting doesn't mean that the other guy has done the same. Marrozzo's buckler system is a defensive innovation and that suggests attention to defense against cutting as well as thrusting.

[quixoteknight]

@AwsomeKwatchy Depends on the graphic you are looking at from the book... many of the plates show the buckler to be about as big as the wielder's head... my head is about 10 inches from top to chin (which is what I used as a basis for comparison on the pics...). Of course you also have to take into consideration the fact that the legs of many of these monks are freakishly long so I doubt the proportions of this manuscript's art can be looked at as a basis for measurement.

[AwsomeKwatchy]

@quixoteknight Yes. The later the period the smaller the bucklers, and the less common the sword. During I.33's period it is thought that it would have been around 12" to 15", thats merely from judging on the size of the buckler in reference to the size of the man in the pictures. Morrozzo was using thrusting swords, not cutting swords, therefore he didn't need a very large buckler, actually a large one would throw off Morrozzo's techniques.