The West Wing - Toby's definition on what a president should be like

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The West wing - Season 07 - final season - Episode 08

Toby Ziegler - Josh Lyman - Matt Santos - God's conspiracy

"Destiny demands of him this service !!!!!!!"

Category:

Entertainment

Tags:

• S07E08
• clip

[HottieCamKevinRedux]

As great a scene as this is on his own, there's one tiny element in Toby's argument he's seemed to have forgotten: the man he previously worked for, and loved doing so, President Bartlet, was in no way at all the type of person he's describing here, either. Sure, Bartlet wasn't on the doorstep of retiring like Santos was, but he also wasn't fueled by some personal major desire to be president. Lest we forget, it was only when Leo came to him with the idea of running that he decided to do so.

[nascarkraz]

I hated that Josh and Toby had such a fall out at the end of the show. I always loved those two almost the most of any of the cast.

[nfinn42]

@bornbillsmith yeah, but you have to be likeable to win a Presidential campaign. That was my point, basically. Toby is too gruff, cynical, awkward, nerdy, and of course being Jewish won't help him with Southern voters... remember that scene where he was talking to Bartlet about how when he worked in a call center, Ziegler was good for the Northeast and the West, but for the South and Midwest he had to go by a different name? :P

[murtaent]

@HottieCamKevinRedux Yeah, but when Bartlett ran, and when he was actually President, he did it balls out.

[bornbillsmith]

@nfinn42 If we knew the truth about the people we elected would we still vote for them.

I'm not a liberal  ( I hate liberals and I also hate conservatives and sometimes I hate my mother but that's Jewish thing and you wouldn't understand) and voted for Kerry even though Bush was much more likable.

Likability is one if the least important things in life.

Truth and honor is more important.

This is how I feel.

I'm kind of different from most people.

My favorie singer is Leonard Cohen.

[nfinn42]

@bornbillsmith lol! The very idea of Toby running for office! ^_^; you have to at least be minimally likeable to get elected to Dog Catcher, much less POTUS! ^^;

[nfinn42]

@UncleMikeNJ Perfect!

[nfinn42]

@HottieCamKevinRedux No, I actually disagree. I think Bartlett always was that kind of person... remember Dolores Landingham recognizing him as a "boy king"? Then his meteoric rise in NH politics, his unbroken string of electoral wins, his winning a Nobel Prize... Bartlett IS a born winner. The difference is, until Leo opened his eyes, he just never included the White House in the radius of his ambition. Once he wanted it: he got it. That's presidential enough for me!

[djolpo]

@nascarkraz I hated it too, but they did reconcile. Actually, this scene was the first step in that process. And don't forget, Toby was the one who ultimately told Josh to cancel everything and get Santos to California which ended up being the strategy that won him the election. So you can say that Toby and Josh got back to where they were at the beginning.

[UncleMikeNJ]

Bartlet is a New England professor. Toby is a New York street fighter. Toby's Woody Guthrie, taking out a pocket knife and carving "This machine kills fascists" on his guitar. Bartlet is Pete Seeger, thinking all he needs to make bad guys put down their weapons is the right song. You can't do anything you want unless you get elected. Without Toby, Bartlet would have been clobbered at the polls; without Bartlet, Toby would never have worked in the White House.

[ShortStackB5]

Toby is the smartest guy on this entire planet.

[rococonroll]

Toby's not Bartlet, he's been dismissed by Bartlet, and he never fully understood the man even in the prime of their relationship. The two were always testy with each other, namely because Bartlet was a healer - he always tried to reach out to people, to be modest, to present an acceptable face of liberalism. Toby has more hate in his heart, he is far more determined, and he's watching eight years of his blood, sweat and tears ready to be swept away. He wants a warrior.