John Piper - The Imprecatory Psalms

"Pour Out Your Indignation Upon Them"
June 22, 2008

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[ForGodAlone]

This was a fantastic sermon to hear. I wish pastor could post the whole thing online. It was astounding.

[prairiemark]

@prairiemark It is not that I think these psalms should not be in the Bible...they are there for a reason. Perhaps it is to show what happens when one group of people oppresses another. Perhaps it is to show the human struggle we all go through when we are wronged. We can deny our thirst for vengence....we can act it out (get a gun) or we can beg God to do it for us. I guess it is good these verses are in the Bible. But please dont say the attitudes displayed are not sinful...more dishonesty.

[prairiemark]

I remember one of the most difficult problems I had when I was an evangelical fundamentalist was to try to believe what I was taught and to retain my intellectual integrity. For example I had to "harmonize" the imprecatory and the attitudes demonstrated by the writers with Christian character. The truth is, their attitude was sinful. They show bitter, seething hatred which is sin. They demand vengence....knock out their teeth...crush their babies heads on the pavement!

[xander7ful]

He's right about the rejection of the imprecatories in Evangelical circles being more subtle. What the Evangelicals say when you bring them up is, "Well, that was then. But since Jesus came, we've moved into an era of GRACE." They imply that, because of grace, those psalms are outdated, irrelevant, not religiously correct. So they idolize GRACE & set aside Holy Spirit-inspired words as nothing. It's just as hateful an attitude as the German's, but it's cloaked in "nice", religious reasons.

[MrHotgeneration1001]

@MrHotgeneration1001 and most importantly what is the answer? how do you reconcile these 2 things? what do you think?

[MrHotgeneration1001]

@rohanwotan2 hey chill out - I'm with you - they should have done better job, definitely. Do you think he intentionally avoided the subject?

[rohanwotan2]

@MrHotgeneration1001

Oh, you mean it's taken out of context? Gee, I've never heard that one before when a believer finds the doctrines of their faith embarrassing and in conflict with morality.  The problem in this case would be this vid is put up by this jokers own organization. So, all the context they wanted all of us to have is here.

[MrHotgeneration1001]

@rohanwotan2 what may had happened here is that this is just a part of a longer sermon that develops the subject further

[MrHotgeneration1001]

@rohanwotan2 yeah you are totally right I was hoping for some answers, well that uncharacteristic of JP, usually he is very direct.

[rohanwotan2]

What a joke. He gave no explanation as to why the objection was allegedly incorrect, merely an assertion. Is this what passes as critical thought in religious circles?

[zikezc]

@HDell1994

I wouldn't bother to waste my time to respond you if you didn't call me ignorant. Yes I know that Yahweh was a god only for jews. I don't see any reason why today it wouldn't be the same. There is no way to merge god's justice and god's mercy. God could have found a better way to work all this out, he is so human to be a god. I will not bother to waste a single second to reply to your comment. Good luck.