Sand Creek Massacre Part 2

The Cheyenne knew BEFORE Sand Creek that they were not at peace with the soldiers at Fort Lyon.

http://books.google.com/books?id=cKjrUyjVfq8C&pg=PA144&lpg=PA144&...

Ash Hollow

Dealz you need to fact check yourself a little better. I mean you are getting better than when I first started talking to you but your still playing fast and lose with facts.

You mention the Mormons Cow and then Ash Hollow like Lieutenant Grattan and his 29 men were not killed in between those two events. It is a disputed matter who fired first at the Grattan Fight and since none of Grattan's men lived to tell the tale we really don't have their side of the story. It is believed that the French interpreter who was with Grattan and was mad at these Indians for stealing his horses in the past may even have been twisting the words of the parties around to cause problems between them.

After all Grattan's men were killed though (in other words after the Sioux had killed EVERYONE who was directly responsible for the death of Conquering Bear) the Sioux went and attacked a mail stage killing 3 men and stealing 20,000 dollars of Gold. 20,000 dollars in 1854 is the equivalent of around 500,000 dollars in todays money in terms of buying power. None of that gold has ever been found by the way. :) There also was continued raiding of stock.

There was an ultimatum given to the Sioux that all tribes who wanted peace were to cross to the South of the Plate River. These Indians did not. The men responsible for Grattan's fate and the stage attack were at Ash Hollow. During the battle the Army took 70 women and children prisoners and didn't even make these prisoners into their ''wives'' like our friends the Sioux would have done. Could be possible non-combatant Indians were intentionally killed there I don't know. I think testimony should be cited though before we say they were.

So as you see Ash Hollow was not over ''a cow'' and while it might be correct to say the Grattan Fight/Massacre may have been over a cow that gives me another question for you Dealz.

Do you think the Lakota Sioux regarded having animals of theirs stolen or killed as a joke or light matter? I wish you could go back in time walk into a Lakota village shoot a warrior's horse in the head and see how long you live.

On Nov, 29th, 1864 Colonel John Chivington with 700 men of the 3rd Colorado Cavalry angered by the Minnesota Massacre, Hungate Family Murder and various other Indian attacks attacked Cheyenne Chief Black Kettles village at Sand Creek. Around 150 Cheyenne Men, Women, and Children were killed many of which were mutilated. The soldiers lost 25 killed and had 51 wounded.

http://www.historynet.com/cheyenne-chief-black-kettle.htm

http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre-the-real-villains.htm

http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre.htm

Little Blue River Raid August 7th - 9th 1864

http://www.forttours.com/pages/littleblueriver.asp

Plum Creek Massacre August 8th 1864

http://www.forttours.com/pages/plumcreekneb.asp

Hungate Family murder June, 11th, 1864

http://www.kclonewolf.com/History/SandCreek/Guest/broome-hungate-01.html

Books

http://www.amazon.com/Massacre-Along-Medicine-Road-Territory/dp/0870043870/re...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/080611147X?tag=lonwol-20&camp=14573&creative...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0806138017?tag=lonwol-20&camp=14573&creative...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0912783370?tag=lonwol-20&camp=14573&creative...

Category:

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Tags:

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• Cheyenne
• Colorado
• Hungate
• Family
• Overland
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• 3rd
• Volunteer
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• John
• Chivington
• Black
• Kettle
• 1864
• Lean
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• Governor
• Evans
• Major
• Edward
• Wynkoop
• Greg
• Michno

[Dealz1988]

Post on utube how the Setters rode West with a (Buffalo Extermination) program met to Starve the Plains Natives into submission. Which anybody who knows basics information about Plains Natives knows the Baffalo was everything to the Native's their food source and their home.

Maybe this is why they were raiding Wagons and towns. to get food sense their main food supply was becoming depleted by the New setters coming in. Its not like they were getting enought for their Indian Agencys.

[7thUSCavalryman]

When the Sand Creek event occurred Major Scott Anthony was in charge of Fort Lyon. He made NO promise of protection to the Indians. He told them he COULD NOT make peace with them which is why he sent them away from the Fort. Major Anthony says he told the Cheyenne to stay away from the Fort and even FIRED ON THEM several days before Chivington arrived when the Cheyenne approached the Fort. Hardly a friendly act is it?

[7thUSCavalryman]

I'm going to link that bit from ''The Fighting Cheyennes in the top of the side bar and send it to you in private message.

[7thUSCavalryman]

Non of this should should be taken to mean that killing noncombatants is an acceptable practice. There is a great deal wrong and misrepresented about Sand Creek though.

[bigchief1]

I enjoyed how the white accounts were stretched to the limits of the immagination to justify the Sand Creek massac.., I mean um, "battle". For an encore, maybe the producers of this unbiased historical 'documentery' can do a peice about how the Jews provoked the Nazis to retaliate against them for starting World War 1.

[Stevenoodlesgrunow]

2 hirds of the murdered indians in Sand Creek where women and children. THis wasn`t a battle. It was a massacre. But the so called indian wars historian talks more baout the killed us Soldiers. That shown a lot about american racism lasting until today.

[oldenmcgroen]

Classic "He said, she said" scenario we have here. Depending on who's telling the story as to which side is demonized the most. The truth lies somewhere in between. However, there is NEVER an excuse for taking the lives of innocent women and children. And most certainly, there's NO HONOR in desecrating the bodies of those slain in battle. This is one of the most egregious acts of barbarism I've ever heard of. "Vengence is MINE, sayeth the Lord". There was no justice served 11-29-1864.

[7thUSCavalryman]

I'm going to post my response about this in the side bar and send it to you in a private messege. I don't want the information about Sand Creek to roll off because that is more important to this video.

[7thUSCavalryman]

Major Edward Wynkoop who had been in command of Fort Lyon may have promised them protection and issued them rations. THIS WAS THE REASON GENERL CURTIS REMOVED WYNKOOP FROM COMMAND THOUGH. Wynkoop was issuing rations to Indians the Army considered hostile.

[7thUSCavalryman]

The video actually disputes there was any peace made between Black Kettle and Chivington at Camp Weld. There was certainly no peace made ''a day before.''

Governor Evans sent a letter the day after Camp Weld to Sam Colley telling him that they had made NO peace with the Cheyenne and told him not to issue rations to them.

No one ever has asserted John Chivington gave the Cheyenne any flag.

[7thUSCavalryman]

Presumably the Cheyenne didn't take horses, women and mutilate people because they were hungry though. You would think these raiders wouldn't be kidnapping women and girls if they were having trouble feeding themselves because then you just have another mouth to feed. Actions like that make one question how tight the food supply really was.

[7thUSCavalryman]

That's a good point Dealz. The eradication of the buffalo was no doubt factor in the conflicts over the years. I wouldn't deny it. Cutting off the food supply is common tactic in warfare. If you can't feed yourself you can't fight. Any city that has ever been besieged or nation that has been naval blockaded can testify to that. Of course in 1864 the Buffalo and other game were not completely gone.