The Dallas Principles Preamble - full LGBT rights now

We face an historic opportunity to obtain full civil rights for LGBT Americans. This is the moment for change. Not delay. Not excuses. www.TheDallasPrinciples.org

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[SamJames]

Dallas Principle #4 states that "Religious beliefs are not a basis upon which to affirm civil rights". On 2 fronts this is erroneous: #1 "Homosexual rights" are not civil rights....you besmirch the African-American civil rights movement by tying your cause in with theirs. #2 "Religious Beliefs" govern motivation for morality which encompasses civil rights. You cannot take away the civil rights of those with religious belief. The DP is a sham.

[JBinSF]

On the issue of besmirching the African-American civil rights movement: There is no besmirching going on. Civil rights weren't invented for the African American community, they existed before African Americans formed a "movement". What is novel for African Americans was that white property owners went to great lengths to deny them any semblance of human dignity, civil rights and protections, or access to the American Promise. No other community had been so vehemently & violently treated

[burtburt]

JBinSF You may find that the killing of 6-million of theJewish community during WWII may have been more "vehemently & violently treated" as you state. History is unfortunately rife with such evidence of past atrocities.

[JBinSF]

burtburt, I don't disagree with you, but the context of this disucssion is the Untied States. The Holocaust did not take place in America.

I'd also point out that 10 million were killed during the Holocaust. 6 million Jews plus 4 million Jypsies, disabled, and HOMOSEXUALS were killed in the camps. Hence the origin of the pink triangle as a symbol of being gay. The Nazis invented the pink triangle, not gay people.

[Slumpnasty]

The "Sacred Band" was an elite group 150 homosexual lovers who fought against Philip of Macedon. In their honor, a monument was "erected" for their valor in combat.

[viduabird]

LGBT or hetero, we're all the same! Love is love!

[JBinSF]

Sam, we ask for full civil rights. We are not asking for different civil rights.

As one example want the right to marry, which the courts have held is a fundamental civil right. That is not a "homosexual" right. It is a fundamental right of all who live in America, yet is denied to the vast majority of gay people.

[SamJames]

The "Principles" appear to tie in "civil rights' and some form of 'homosexual rights'. Civil rights are to be inclusive of all groups and are not to be taken possession by one 'elite' group (i.e. gay people). To try to use the terms interchangeable only degrades what civil rights were intended to do. On the morality issue: the standard does not become diluted because of differing views. Religious beliefs of morality are as valid as any other, and are the basis for forming moral standards.

[JBinSF]

Sam I understand that religion may motivate you. However the legal underpinnings for civil rights come from the US Constitution, which stands alone as the "bottom line" on the issue. Both atheists and people of faith can equally look to the Constitution to determine whether a civil right exists.

Human rights, however, come from a broader framework that extends beyond a constitutional or civil framework. A human right might not be written or even acknowledged by government.

[Rainfish]

Millions of voters in the GLBT community put Obama and other Democrats in office. Politicians (like most of us) live in fear also. They, of course, live in constant fear of losing an election because of screwing with the wrong people. So let them fear us for a change. Let them know that they cannot automatically count on our votes -- which they will always need and beg for in a close election ....Remember: you are only as weak or as strong as you are willing to be. Dont let others define you.