Life Of Brian- 1979 Debate (3/4)

The full debate from "Friday Night, Saturday Morning", 9th November 1979.

On the edition of 9 November 1979, hosted by Tim Rice, a discussion was held about the then-new film Monty Python's Life of Brian, which been banned by many local councils and caused protests throughout the world with accusations that it was blasphemous. To argue in favour of this accusation were broadcaster and noted Christian Malcolm Muggeridge and Mervyn Stockwood (the then Bishop of Southwark). In its defence were two members of the Monty Python team, John Cleese and Michael Palin.

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• Bishop
• of
• Southwark
• Arthur
• Mervyn
• Stockwood
• Malcolm
• Muggeridge
• tim
• rice
• debate
• michael
• palin
• john
• cleese
• monty
• python
• Monty Python
• Monty Python's Life Of Brian
• John Cleese
• Michael Palin

[danielvanraders]

God Malcom Muggeridge is a f*cking idiot

[thexalon]

"You wouldn't 'guy' Socrates or make him appear as a clown."

Muggeridge seems like he's completely unfamiliar with Aeschylus' The Clouds, which did precisely that.

[andrjsh]

@megamarsvin Thanks for writing back. I agree that the Church used "maternal persuasion" (no different, in its exterior aspect, than established Judaism, Zoroastrianism, or Islam), but two wrongs do not make a right. That is the whole point of Christianity, that at some point you stop hitting each other. I would say that criticism, critique, and debate are in one camp, while mockery & bullying are in another. The problem in any discussion is identifying the motives of the parties involved.

[megamarsvin]

@andrjsh I see it completely in reverse. For many hundreds of years the Catholic church "bullied" everyone who thought differently, and not just with jokes but with death and torture. Now the shoe is on the other foot and suddenly they cry foul if they are not handled with kid gloves, suddenly they play the victim.

Violence may stifle criticism, but wouldn't you agree that's a bad thing? If you're open to discussion you have to accept people may say things you don't want to hear.

[andrjsh]

@megamarsvin Thanks for your reply. To flesh out my point: if someone feels that one can "get away with" mocking someone else, esp. a target that will not fight back, then, sadly, one may very well do it. It is part of the instinct to bully. To say it more bluntly: people who mock others are bullies, although they hide their contempt and intellectual violence under "criticism" or "honest discussion." (I am steeling myself for the cybersnot who will tell me that I misspelled "Cleese.")

[megamarsvin]

@andrjsh You're painting with rather a broad brush there but for argument's sake let's say you're right. So what? If making fun of Muhammed gives rise to death threats, what does that have to do with this debate? Are you saying Christians should do the same? Or that that's reason not to question the Church?

I don't see the relevance. It's just another distraction from the actual topic being discussed.

[HConstantine]

@thexalon Not mention the last hing Socrates said at his execution a joke. His studnets ask how they should bury him. He says, "Any way, you want to, if you can catch me," (suggesting his rue self will be set free by death.

[0ddc1]

400 hundred years ago we would have been burnt for this film. I'm suggesting we've made an advance.

[andrjsh]

Muggerridge is right (20-30 years ahead of his time) in that mocking Mohammed would create a "hullaballoo," which is a euphemism for a call for your death. Christians should turn the other cheek and if they do not, then they are condemned; you cannot say the same to a Hindu, Moslem, or Jew. As for Cleves' comment, intelligence rates lower than humility, love, and forebearance.

[TheSplendidMrHaza22]

i have watched the life of brian countless times and never once did i relate it to Jesus and have never related it to the 'incarnation'

[devxc]

Wow last minute piss me off. What the guy said is BULLSHIT >:[

[frithar]

So, Michael makes this brilliant point-- in all humility, like he says (2 min mark), and the so-called bishop slams him down with religiosity. Please don't assume this "bishop" speaks for Christianity. His mouth says one thing, but his heart is clearly revealed as pompous and false.