William Lane Craig - Where do Objective Morals Originate in the Universe ?

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• Moral Values
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[gerhitchman]

I don't want a moral system whereby we believe things are good only because God says they are. If God commanded Christians to kill their families, this would be a good thing to do?

I don't want an "objective morality" like this. Furthermore, sometimes it is a *good* thing to kill someone. It is permissible to kill someone if they were a psychopathic killer who would kill hundreds. An absolute list of commandments isn't a basis for objective morality, it's a lazy joke.

[Balaganow]

Lane Craig only plays with words. Objective morality can not be given by god. Let's look at definition of the word 'objective'. "Free of bias and independent". It can only be given by a person less being. So, if Christian god creates everything, His morale would be ACTUAL but definitely not objective. So he certainly can not say if god made a morale code and by definition, it becomes true and objective.

[trippygraffiti]

This is an argument from ignorance. There are better explanations for objective morality than god. Instincts and evolution are better explanations because there is evidence that those things exist. There is no evidence that god exist. Craig claims "if god does not exist, then objective moral values do not exist." One would be more reasonable to say "if evolution does not exist, then objective moral values do not exist."

[itheemartian]

@kenpca If I were to say that there is a circumstance in which something like raping a child is morally acceptable implies that there are preexisting morals, thereby entrapping me to the idea. I will say this in response to your latter question: if a person who commits that crime doesn't feel like he or she has done wrong, then that is an example of a circumstance in which it is morally acceptable. If there is a society that were to exist that believes its okay, is another.

[itheemartian]

@kenpca While I believe there are universal laws, I don't believe there are moral laws. If by objective, you mean have a purpose, then yes; though, not granted from a supreme being. Though I don't think murder, rape or molestation is right, doesn't make it wrong. To a person committing the act, it may not be either of those. It may just be the acting out an instinct. How can I tell someone their instinct is wrong?

[kenpca]

@itheemartian Do you believe the murder, rape and child molestation are always wrong regardless of one's personal or cultural belief? If so, then you also believe that at least some moral values are objective. Unless you believe that rape, murder or child molestation are not always wrong depending upon one's personal or cultural beliefs. So what would you say about raping little children? Is there a circumstance that it is morally acceptable? If not...then you also believe in objective morals

[TouchOfGreatness]

The problem is. there is nothing Yahwey COULD have done for Craig to consider immoral - for Yahwey did EVERYTHING most of consider evil, and yet, apologists consider him "all that is good"

[itheemartian]

@Zentz29 "Wether or not a god exists, human morals are subjective." I could not have said it any better.

[Zentz29]

@Marduniya Even if there is an "objective moral standard", only the "creator" of that standard could possibly know it. No human being knows what is "objectively moral". Humans NECESSARILY have to use subjective reasoning wether or not a god has a perfect/objective standard.

If an "objective standard" exists, it is useless to anyone unless you know what is objectively moral. Wether or not a god exists, human morals are subjective.

[EnjoiningKnowlege]

Would you mind telling me the exact date (year) of this lecture (or was it a debate)? I would like to include it in the bibliography of a paper I am writing. Thanks!