@HolisticSam Hm, a lot of different movement patterns seems like they would all have natural precidents. Like if a guy was going to punch me in the stomach, I'd want to brace. But if he was slashing a knife at it, I think I'd rather suck it in.
Yep. My primary problem with bracing is that it is NOT natural. Its a substitute pattern. Engaging global muscle activity constantly is going to lead to overuse and likely further faulty movement imbalances in other muscles over time. The reality is, we simply don't know yet which is best.
Yep. Everything works, its just a matter of context. I've used all methods, and they all work sometimes. I would always prefer to go with what "unconsciously" works, but sometimes that doesn't appear to restore, so the next best thing is making sure each muscle works, and let the patient experiment with what works for them.
@HolisticSam bracing by definition means that the entire core front side and back,superficial and deep layers are activated.I wouldnt blindy follow anything but id be guided by it if the research was valid and reliable.
@tyciol if you could prove TA was deficient strength or timing for an individual it would be a good strategy but I dont believe that the pressure cuff can diagnose that
@billysue2 I don't think anyone's arguing that drawing in adds more max stability than bracing, but relying on drawing-in rather than bracing for stability would be the best way to isolate the TA muscle for use as a core stabilizer. This would limit the weight we could stabilize, but would probably result in greater gains in its strength compared to recruiting other stabilizers (erectors,abs,obliques) possibly in preference to TA which we might not activate as much as we might through isolation.
This is the same as saying "That muscle draws in, but is useless". It has a function, and in "normal" individuals, when you bend over, the tva draws the belly button in without contraction of the superficial muscles. Additionally, you may not understand that as the fibers of the TVA merge WITH the obliques, when you brace, you ALSO turn on the TVA to some degree. Its important to develop a RANGE of options in neuromuscular control, not blindly following research.
@dancingfirewind why would any healthy person or those with back injury not the same as the patient group in the research require tva isolation training?Its been shown repeatedly that abdominal drawing in isnt an effective stabilising method,abdominal bracing is.See stu McGills work,the foremost back scientist in the world by far.The Tva research was done on specific back injury patients.
Woa! You got some crazy reverb in that room!! Cool for singing, but not when you're trying to learn how lose your muffin top. Thanks for the vid!
koulaiyed 3 months ago 2
@HolisticSam Hm, a lot of different movement patterns seems like they would all have natural precidents. Like if a guy was going to punch me in the stomach, I'd want to brace. But if he was slashing a knife at it, I think I'd rather suck it in.
tyciol 3 months ago
@tyciol,
Yep. My primary problem with bracing is that it is NOT natural. Its a substitute pattern. Engaging global muscle activity constantly is going to lead to overuse and likely further faulty movement imbalances in other muscles over time. The reality is, we simply don't know yet which is best.
HolisticSam 4 months ago
@scarred10,
Yep. Everything works, its just a matter of context. I've used all methods, and they all work sometimes. I would always prefer to go with what "unconsciously" works, but sometimes that doesn't appear to restore, so the next best thing is making sure each muscle works, and let the patient experiment with what works for them.
HolisticSam 4 months ago
@HolisticSam bracing by definition means that the entire core front side and back,superficial and deep layers are activated.I wouldnt blindy follow anything but id be guided by it if the research was valid and reliable.
scarred10 4 months ago
@tyciol if you could prove TA was deficient strength or timing for an individual it would be a good strategy but I dont believe that the pressure cuff can diagnose that
scarred10 4 months ago
@billysue2 I don't think anyone's arguing that drawing in adds more max stability than bracing, but relying on drawing-in rather than bracing for stability would be the best way to isolate the TA muscle for use as a core stabilizer. This would limit the weight we could stabilize, but would probably result in greater gains in its strength compared to recruiting other stabilizers (erectors,abs,obliques) possibly in preference to TA which we might not activate as much as we might through isolation.
tyciol 4 months ago
Perhaps i am wrong, but doesnt this exercise and islolate multifidus....not TA ?
mishacello555 4 months ago
@billysue2
This is the same as saying "That muscle draws in, but is useless". It has a function, and in "normal" individuals, when you bend over, the tva draws the belly button in without contraction of the superficial muscles. Additionally, you may not understand that as the fibers of the TVA merge WITH the obliques, when you brace, you ALSO turn on the TVA to some degree. Its important to develop a RANGE of options in neuromuscular control, not blindly following research.
HolisticSam 1 year ago
@dancingfirewind why would any healthy person or those with back injury not the same as the patient group in the research require tva isolation training?Its been shown repeatedly that abdominal drawing in isnt an effective stabilising method,abdominal bracing is.See stu McGills work,the foremost back scientist in the world by far.The Tva research was done on specific back injury patients.
billysue2 1 year ago