Labarum312's Facepalm Challenge

Original video:
http://www.youtube.com/labarum312
Aaron's video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PU18oCX3-E
ReligionFreeDeist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMxMtNws9gA

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• religion
• Christ
• theism
• atheism
• God
• eternal
• unknown
• Aaronk1994
• ReligionFreeDeist
• Labarum312
• Jesus
• apologia
• debate

[EffieReal]

I think that the philosophical questions of why? or how could God allow? or what was it like back in ancient times? or what will the future be like? heaven? etc... are all examples of questions that any answers of "certainty" delivered by another Christian (whether seemingly Biblical or not) would seem like pat, smug "answers" by one who is young and not reached a certain place of faith despite those uncertainties. Life is hard, sometimes research isn't enough. Faith includes waiting on Jesus.

[shipleyshipster]

@EffieReal I don't understand. Are you saying that because I am "young" any definitive answers I provide, whether Biblically sound or not, seem pat and smug? I would quote 1 Timothy 4:12, but that doesn't even apply here. The disciples were MY age, teenagers. Only Peter and Jesus payed the temple tax which was only required of men over the age of 20. I'm not "young" by any Biblical standard, I'm a fully grown man.

[CMrace]

Nice! Time is created by God. Having the property "eternal" means God is bound by time and therefore can't have that property. Nice logic.

I sometimes use the approach: Time and space are one - Spacetime. Without space there is no time. so what's it mean to be eternal when the universe was a singularity. What's eternal mean when time does not exist?

I usually get a very "stoner" response. He's on a separate plane or dimension man. or he just doesn't need a cause. Why? He just doesn't.

[shipleyshipster]

@CMrace Having an eternal nature doesn't require time. It's all time, he exists past, present, and future. I don't follow your logic.

[EffieReal]

@shipleyshipster BTW, that was just an extreme example for the sake of illustration and I did not mean either comment to be directly at what I think you "personally" might say. I was just addressing the question of waiting on Jesus for some of our answers not really being the face-palm inducer that you expressed in every situation so I attempted to give a more detailed example. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack.

[EffieReal]

@shipleyshipster No, I was saying "young" in the sense of young in the faith. BTW, in the sense of life experience, which doesn't necessarily equate to any age in numbers, anyone can be "young". A "fully grown man" can give "seemingly" Biblical sound answers but be so young as to not have spiritual discernment. Taking a situation of a grieving widow for example and someone "Biblically" counseling her to not grieve since her husband is in Heaven. it might be Biblical, but it's wrong to say.

[CMrace]

@shipleyshipster

I see your point. I didn't realize that theists had actually created a metaphysical definition to resolve the problem of God being bound by time above.

That is, all the other definitions of eternal depend on time except the metaphysical one

4) Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.

So I guess that I'll bow to definition on this one. With a slight chuckle I admit you're right It doesn't follow. 

[CMrace]

@shipleyshipster

Those are my words re-edited no doubt. Except I don't assert any of that.

Through the hard work of measurement and thought we understand what the universe was like in the past and even infer what it will be like in the future. We don't know by what process it was created, but that's ok with me. I'd rather not argue from ignorance and pretend to be right. That would be arrogant.

The only axioms I hold are identity, consciousness, and existence. After that Logic leads the way.

[shipleyshipster]

@CMrace So basically there's a magic-land where any dilemma about the existence of the Universe doesn't need to be considered. We know this place exists because the Universe exists and it made itself while living there, and we know the Universe exists because it created itself. It's an impregnable fortress of assertions... devoid of facts.

FAIL.