Death versus immortality

Immortality - even were it possible - is an illusion.

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• immortality

[ChrisJMoor]

I find a useful thought experiment about consciousness is to consider the supposed operation of a beam transporter. It works by destroying the object and using the 'beam' of energy to recreate the object in a different location. Since the original object is destroyed, can it be inferred that if it was a person, that person actually dies every time they use the transporter but from to an outside observer, they were simply transported. Interesting thought..

[thatgaybloke]

What about the storage mechanisms described in Richard Hamilton's Commonwealth books, or Richard Morgan's Altered Carbon series? Snapshots of the "pattern". What about multiple copies of the original?

Our ability to produce such technology is going to be hampered by the uncertainty principle. There will always be transcription errors which would in turn be cumulative. I doubt these are practical problems we'll have to worry about any time soon.

[ChrisJMoor]

You know, the more you think about these things, concepts such as mind downloading and the like, the more it becomes apparent that the mind is nothing more special than the 0s and 1s in computer memory. As for the idea of 'souls' as imagined by many religious people, the concept is laughably childish, quite frankly.

I think copying INFORMATION to or from a person's brain is quite possible, as for mind copy and transfer, much much harder - need a Heisenberg compensator, maybe;)

[thatgaybloke]

Ah yes, the Star Trek Heisenberg compensator.

The idea of a "soul" is ridiculous. If it is part of who we are then damage to the brain wouldn't affect the personality - the soul being independent. If it isn't part of who we are, it's just some passenger, then I don't care what happens to it any more than I care what the barber does with my hair cuttings.

[ProfMTH]

Excellent. You've given me a new wrinkle on this, a new way to think about it: the notion of one dying over and over again. Very interesting.

I attended a new-agey funeral on Saturday and was struck by how much of what was said was not about celebrating the life of the decedent -- though there was a good bit of that -- but how we should rejoice because the decedent has "gone on" to an even better life, a "brighter" life, that he is now as the butterfly is to the caterpillar. While the...

[Hereticbooks]

Wow!  What more can I say?

[rackerslacker]

You totally blew my mind-awesome!!

[ChrisJMoor]

Quite, it cannot be logically-defended unless you invoke a supernatural element. Moreover, it cannot be defended within reason if you know and understand neurology. Hell, it cannot be defended if you've ever known a person that has suffered brain damage - just where do the lost memories and faculties go? Into a cosmic storage cupboard to be grafted back onto the main soul after we die? And the statement that 'well your okay again after you die' is just...shit, quite frankly.

[card969]

You shouldnt talk about things you dont understand and i speek of religion. You said the prospect of an afterlife gives religion power wich is false considering your an athiest and dont beleive in god therfore dont know what you are talking about. God and Religion are 2 different things you do not need to be religious to believe in god.

[XGralgrathor]

Not having been alive for the past 13.7 billion years *does* bother me *now*, as does the prospect of not existing for the countless billion years to come. It's odd, but even though it's nearly impossible to see everything there is to see now, while we're here to see it, I still feel I've missed out on some sights, and will be missing out on lots more in the future. Somehow, there being no 'me' to miss things before birth or after death does not quite alleviate this discontent I feel now.

[thatgaybloke]

I think this is the major appeal I find of forgiving. It allows you to accept that you can't change something and that you have been wronged and need to move on. Hurting someone back doesn't fix anything other than satisfy an uncivilised need to strike back.

Forgiving someone doesn't mean letting them off. It means letting yourself off from a cycle of hatred.

[thatgaybloke]

I loathe the concept of "justice" in the sense it is often used - payback. An eye for an eye gives in to our basic desire for revenge. But that's not really enough. You don't want an eye, you want an eye and a fingernail, a little bit of interest on your pain. For some crimes there is never enough. You continue to feel wronged and the anger feeds on itself.

[thatgaybloke]

I think we all have this sense of continuity. The changes are undetectable to us because they are small increments - much in the way that people around you don't notice how you put on or lose weight or age, but someone who hasn't seen you for a while sees the jump between two states.

I have a sense of continuity with the me of yesterday, or last week, but the further back I go, the harder it is to identify that person as me. We have a shared history, but I don't feel we're the same person.