5.4, part 1 of 6: The Evolution of the Afterlife

The evolution of the afterlife.
STAGE ONE: the 37 out of 39 Old Testament books that either don't mention, or even deny, an afterlife.
STAGE TWO: the 2 Old Testament books that say there IS an afterlife.
STAGE THREE: the New Testament, in which the afterlife, complete with Judgment Day & Heaven & Hell, becomes one of Christianity's main selling points.

By Todd Allen Gates, author of "Dialogue with a Christian Proselytizer."

This video series is also posted on the Rational Response Squad site, where there's no word/character limitation on the Comments section: see http://www.rationalresponders.com/the_evolution_of_the_afterlife_from_the_ear...

An overview of whole series:

1 of 7: a brief description of videos 2 through 7.

2 of 7: a description of the Socratic Method.

3 of 7: the ground premises that the skeptic needs to establish with the Christian in order (a) for the Socratic Method to work, and (b) to focus on the issue at hand, which is "Are there valid reasons for me to believe that the Judeo-Christian Bible is the Word of God?"

4 of 7: the skeptic and the Christian read through scriptures and stories from non-Christian religions. Both agree that the following three characteristics are strong clues that a religion was not created by an Omniscient Wisdom, but just made up by people: (1) a cluelessness about the true layout of the universe, (2) senseless prejudices, (3) the borrowing of ideas & stories from pre-existing religions.

5 of 7: the skeptic and the Christian read through the Judeo-Christian Bible, and examine it by the same critical light just held up to non-Christian religions.

Science, Religion, and "truth" vs. "Truth": An explanation of how science and religion are opposites of each other when it comes to how permanent each considers its own knowledge to be--why religion spells its truths with a Capital T, and why science uses the lowercase t. This discussion is a continuation of a topic brought up in Video 5, but as my notes for this tangent issue grew longer and longer, I decided to give this 3-part series a separate title.

5.1 -- 5.4: Further details on the origins of the Judeo-Christian bible--how many of its ideas & stories can be found in religions that pre-date the bible by centuries.

5.1 explains why many of the baffling details within the tale of Noah & the Ark make sense once the story is read as a monotheistic version (in which God is said to be Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Benevolent) of a story that was originally polytheistic (in which the gods were none of the above).

5.2 discusses the pre-Christian religious stories from the Greeks, Romans, and Zoroastrians about unions between gods & mortals, miraculous virgin births, and offspring that were both human and god. It also covers the "Satanic pre-plagiarization" explanations from early Church Fathers Justin Martyr and Tertullian on how the pagans knew about these phenomena centuries before the time of Jesus.

5.3: Richard Dawkins refers to the Christian premises behind the belief that Jesus/God sacrificed Himself to appease Himself as "barking mad." This video looks at each of those premises--Divine Anger, the need for sacrifice, the use of a scapegoat--from the perspective of comparative mythology. A subtitle for this video would be "Richard Dawkins meets Joseph Campbell."

5.4: the evolution of the afterlife. Stage One - the 37 out of 39 Old Testament books that either don't mention, or even deny, an afterlife. Stage Two - the 2 Old Testament books that say there IS an afterlife. Stage Three - The New Testament, in which the afterlife, complete with Judgment Day & Heaven & Hell, becomes one of Christianity's main selling points.

6 of 7: a discussion of an abbreviated form of using the Socratic Method with proselytizers.

7 of 7: a discussion of why my approach focuses on skepticism of so-called revealed religions rather than skepticism of a Creator.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Afterlife
• death
• heaven
• hell
• Judgment
• Day
• evolution
• Plato
• Republic
• Egyptian
• Dead
• Zoroastrianism
• Christ
• religion
• atheism

[ElProximo]

Uh no.

Abraham comes directly out of a culture that is massively obsessed with the afterlife. Moses is raised and educated in a culture that was just about obsessed with afterlife.

So this idea that later Jews 'discover' this idea is so blatantly ignorant I wonder how you could block that out of your research?

Why are YOU removing the 3 examples?

You have 3 examples and then dismiss them because they are just 3 examples.

Yikes, the cognitive dissonance and ignorance of Atheists has no bounds.

[ToddAllenGates]

@ElProximo

> Abraham comes directly out of a culture that is massively obsessed with the afterlife.

Which biblical passages show that Abraham's culture was "massively obsessed" with the afterlife?

The three passages I cited--2 Kings 2:1, Genesis 5:24, and Samuel 28--are stray undeveloped passages.

Where does Moses talk about going to heaven or hell, or any kind of afterlife?

There are LOTS of OT passages about God's rewards & wrath, but they take place here on earth.

[ElProximo]

@ToddAllenGates

Do you know anything about ancient world history? Sumeria was one of the most impressive civilizations in human history and besides their infatuation with astrology they were obsessed with after-life. Almost as much as their cousins the Egyptians who were all but a massive 'afterlife club'.

So your idea that Moses or Abraham 'discovered the idea' or 'later borrowed' is just plain silly.

They would have been soaked in it as a fundamental presumption their entire lives.

[ToddAllenGates]

@ElProximo

> [Sumerians & Egyptians] were obsessed with after-life

You're only proving my point of the contrast between the Sumerians & Egyptians (and in this series I cite from their sacred texts) and the Hebrews. The pagans believed in an afterlife; the early Hebrews didn't. The Judeo-Christian bible goes through a change: "there's no afterlife" vs. "there IS an afterlife," and it's reasonable to assume that the Jews/Hebrews were influenced by the pagans.

[ElProximo]

@ToddAllenGates

The Hebrews did believe in an afterlife according to their texts. What I am showing you is that the 'silence' is better explained by a presumption of some sort of afterlife rather than nothing at all.

It is unreasonable to assume they were 'later influenced' because it is from the very beginning they are not just 'influenced' but fully immersed and actually 'part of' their surrounding culture. If there is any 'influencing' it is right then and there from the start.

[ToddAllenGates]

@ElProximo

> the 'silence' is better explained by a presumption of some sort of afterlife rather than nothing at all.

I see no reason to interpret 'silence' as a belief ... but I can see why you do.

I think we've reached something of a dead end here as far as each of us presenting arguments that don't convince the other.

But I thank you for your feedback, and offer my advance apologies if I fail to respond again (altho I'll respond to comments on different videos / different topics).

[templarart]

I have his book too! His myth comparisons are very well researched and invaluable in disarming an apologist!

[KT45]

his book is great. I highly recommend it

[ElProximo]

@BillKiernan

No, I do not need to provide you evidence for 'my claims' and can choose to only point at some mistakes.

So what?

[BillKiernan]

@ElProximo before you ask people to correct their mistakes, you need to provide evidence for you claims. so far, you've done nothing but assert things.

[ElProximo]

@ToddAllenGates

What you can do is go and correct your mistakes. I have convinced you of some errors in your thinking and pointed out that unique cognitive dissonance in your reasoning.

What you wish to do is pretend it didn't happen and carry on like it didn't happen. OK.

If that is what you need to do to protect your belief system then nobody can stop you.

(though I would still like to know why you discount 3 references to afterlife just because you 'felt like it' lol)

[1onetheone]

@1onetheone you will live holy and free from all your previous sin cause Jesus frees you from them. Then when Jesus comes or you die, you will be white and holy before God and live in the house of the Lord forever.

This is the stakes, God said "He who sins must die" But Jesus said, " All sinners who believe in me will inherit eternal life and I will never wipe his name out of the book of life"

So the call is always the same REPENT and Turn to God, believe in Jesus his son!