2.14 - China (Commanding Heights Sample)

Commanding Heights: The Battle for the World Economy

Visiting Deng Xiaoping
No easy way out for the USSR

Watch all of Commanding Heights at PBS.org

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/hi/story/index.html

Category:

Howto & Style

Tags:

• Commanding
• Heights
• Economics
• Deng
• Xiaoping
• Gorbachev
• Tianneman
• Square
• Mao
• Tse-Tung
• Singapore
• Lee
• Kuan
• Yew
• Sachs
• Glasnost

[EPsuperFan]

Deng would be so sad to see you shout this on internet. He spent his whole life in dedication to trash personal cult. He waited for Mao's death,he dumped Gang of 4,he routed Hua Guofeng,he banished the leader's chance of being "great" in China. And of course,he bulleted students,a person with less toughness won't be able to do that,amd China would be in a mess.

[historyboy12]

So what exactly is your line of argument?Your first post is incorrect: China was never a 'democracy' from the beginning. And you fail to mention the civil war from the 1920s which stalled socio-economic development. The KMT also still failed.

Secondly, yes it's true that the unification and colonisation (non Han regions) process required coercion. But my initial post is my criticism of the mass repression and general rule of the communists, not the immediate need for political reforms.

[eastern2western]

it shows that chinese is probably the most capitalist race in the world.

[historyboy12]

Didn't read what I wrote? I said partial political reforms and was what happened in the 1980s and 1990s during late era of rapid growth. We had full social freedom since the beginning. The formula for HK was minimal govt intervention in all fields, though efficient, effective and transparent. Plus we had plenty of labour, capital and capitalists since 1949.

In fact Sir Young wanted to make HK a democracy immediately after ww2, but Grantham reversed course because of concern from Beijing.

[lordawesome46]

Hong Kong developed under British rule as a colony where the people of Hong Kong had zero political rights -- zip, none, nada. They couldn't elect the governor; they didn't have a legilature body to make their own laws, and they had no right in participating in British politics either. That's the formula that made Hong Kong work -- focusing on eonomics and leaving the politics to the rulers. Today Hong Kong'ers have some political rights and that have made the place chaotic in many ways.

[TheWilliamcale]

i can distribute poverty

or i can distribute wealth

wow heavy

simple simple thing

[fee1776]

You just made my point. The KMT had to use authoritarian rule. China is too large and diverse and constantly under foreign threat and interferrence to start with democracy. With a largely poor and uneducated population in the 19th and early 20th Century democracy is nearly impossible. Today 10 percent of China is cosmopolitant, but 90 percent is still functionally literate. Limited democracy is possible at local level, full scale national level needs to wait until more middle class.

[historyboy12]

Well no, that's historically inaccurate because there was a restoration shortly after the 1911 revolution. Yuan Shikai ignored the constitution. The KMT later tried to pursue a democratic reformist agenda, but had to engage in authoritarian rule first and never really changed from this stance.

Secondly, no country really could have defeated Japan, the 'island nation' was far more advanced than China even had it modernized (which it partially did, however this was stalled by the communists)

[fee1776]

China had a US style republic in 1911. It failed because regional politicians and ruling rich families used the democratic opposition to stifle badly needed modernization and reforms. China paid dearly as warlords took Bejing and lost opportunity to modernize to face Japan in 1937. Result China was backwards and lost millions at the hands of a modern Japananese military invasion and later Soviet meddling.

[historyboy12]

The students and protestors largely didn't constitute a threat to the leadership, excluding some radical elements, and most of the deaths occured on the 4th when the CCP used shock tactics of mass repression upon protestors. The regime was right to stand its ground, but the mass killing and hitherto mass censorship is unecessary.

Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore shouldn't be the only option for China. Hong Kong rapidly developed with full social and partial political reforms.

[historyboy12]

As much as this video should be applauded for offering an alternative outlook upon 4/6/1989, after all this is the beauty of the west's media institutions, the CCP's actions shouldn't be justified at all.