Mark Driscoll vs Joel Osteen - Are they Different? No.

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Reformed minister Mark Driscoll claims to be above the Arminianism of Joel Osteen. But is it so? Driscoll says that we are required to do things in order to be saved. E.g. a "heartfelt commitment", "an embracing" and "forsaking sin" are all requirements. In fact, these works must be performed by someone BEFORE they have faith IN ORDER for them to get faith. Apparently, dead unbelievers must pray their way into life!

Contrary to this, Scripture says that an unbeliever's "prayers", "seeking", "repentance" and "turning from sin" -- all these things are sin (Rom 10:14). In fact, all their feelings of "remorse", "regret", "guilt", "sorrow" must be sin. Any attempt to be "humble" or "sincerely turn from sin", is in fact sin. Because all the unbeliever's works are works of unbelief. If they try to be sincerely "seeking salvation", it's because they don't think Christ was sincere enough. By "seeking faith in order to be saved", an unbeliever shows they think they are capable to "finishing off" what Christ "failed" to do.

Scary, huh? Especially when you hear ministers (not of Christ) telling unbelievers to pray. Because everything an unbeliever does is sin, that means that praying will only serve to increase the unbeliever's sin (condemnation). In fact, every attempt by an unbeliever to "stop sinning" only increases their condemnation.

Take for example an unbeliever called John. Now, imagine a preacher told John to "seek after faith" in order to be saved. And suppose John follows the preacher's advice and tries hard to stop sinning, he prays, sings hymns, tries to be convicted by preaching, seeks to be around church members. But remember, he's doing all these things "in order to be saved".

In other words, the preacher has lead John to believe salvation by works. Every work John does of "seeking salvation" is actually an attempt to make himself better than other men (as if just being better than other corrupt people is enough to make the perfect God of the Bible pleased with you !).

The apostles on the other hand told men to pray "with faith, not wavering" (James 1). They told men TO BELIEVE and commanded unbelievers to obey the whole Law WITH FAITH. They did NOT tell men to "pray for faith", since a prayer for faith, must always (by definition) be a prayer of unbelief.

You will never find them telling men *how* to become a believer or how to be converted. That would be as ridiculous as telling an animal how to become a believer! (Unbelievers are "brute beasts", Jude 1:10)

Romans 10: 20 But Isaiah is very bold and says, "I was found by those NOT SEEKING ME; I became known to those NOT INQUIRING AFTER ME." Quoting Isa. 65:1

Isaiah 30: 21 And your ears shall hear a word BEHIND YOU, saying, This is the way, walk in it, when you go right, or when you go left.

The truth comes to a man completely unexpected! Without any humility or sincerity on his part. The voice is BEHIND the man. In other words, he wasn't seeking at all! He was "not inquiring" and "not seeking".

Think about Paul when he was Saul. He was SEEKING TO MURDER CHRISTIANS. He was PRAYING that the Gospel of Christ would be annihilated. And he was SINCERELY hoping and DESIRING to be "saved" ... but how? By his works!! (Philippians 3:6-9)

So we see that the ONLY thing men seek after before they are saved is THEIR OWN SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS.

(& Notice that Paul's conversion was completely unsuspected without any "repenting" or "conviction of sin" coming before it.)

and Paul is a pattern for all the saints (1 Tim 1:16).

So God still converts people today in a state of self-righteousness, when they are seeking nothing but falsehood (just like Paul was!!)

Now, does Driscoll think prayer is a requirement in order to be saved?

If no, then why does he tell unbelievers to pray BEFORE salvation? If prayer is NOT required for salvation, then why should they bother?

I suspect he thinks prayer is a requirement for salvation....(That's why he tells unbelievers to do it, in order to be saved)

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• mark
• driscoll
• mars
• hill
• church
• john
• macarthur
• joel
• osteen
• emerging
• resurgence

[stravis76]

Dude, what are you talking about, you are obviously not understanding what is going on here. The Bible says that, Romans 10:9-10 "If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." As you yield your life to Him, God will help you turn from your sins. You cannot overcome sin without His help. The Bible says, "Unless you repent you will all likewise perish."

[tweakfarmer]

dude you tried way to hard to get something on Mark Driscoll. You really went fishing for that one. IF you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that god raised him from the dead you will be saved. Rom 10 9-10.

I will pray for you.

[iberelyt]

Ok, have you ever actually read the Bible, and put it into context. Because your arguments are NOT biblical. Is Driscoll perfect? No, he argues that himself. Look at the book of Romans, in CONTEXT and the book of John, again in Context, particularly chapter 3.

[expiated]

I just want to point out that when Pastor Mark says, “…trust in Him…receive…His forgiveness,” it absolutely IS of faith and NOT “salvation by works” as the narrator claims. If you do that in all sincerity (as Pastor Driscoll indicates), trusting in the work Jesus accomplished by living a sinless life, dying on the cross in our place and rising from the dead as confirmation that the price He paid was accepted by God the Father, the Bible says you absolutely will be saved!

[JoelKnoerr]

Dude your a complete moron. You know Nothing about the Bible that's ever clear. I hope God gets a hold of you fast and corrects you fast cause  you need help.

[merryredollie]

worst YouTube video ever

[safetygearhq]

@AndrewcBain Are you a professing Christian? It is 'required' that a sinner turn from his sin and repent to accept the gift of Salvation. It is 'required' that a sinner ask for forgiveness for his wretched, sinful life. It is 'required' that a sinner put his trust and faith in Christ Jesus. But this has nothing to do with works salvation. If I had your opinion of Salvation, I would hope a true Christian would advise me to examine my Faith.

[brodieheg]

why dont you stop bashing on other peoples vision, and go out and expand your own. Dont worry about the splinter in another man's eye when you have a plank in your own

[remusnigga]

I DO NOT Like Mark Driscoll,and I have Heard Horrible Things On The Internet About Joel Osteen. I am GLAD That Joel Osteen bashes The HERETICS At The Calvary Chapel CULT! Mark Drisoll Speaks HORRIBLE Things About women,and Joel Osteen Is so Flaming gay with His Shit eating grin,it isn't funny any more. But Yet, I STILL can't see How joel Osteen Is a false preacher. If He is, then WHY Does he pastor The LARGEST Church in America Today Which KEEPS GROWING????

[compass745]

Faith by works is the only way to achieve salvation. My question is: WHERE IS YOUR FAITH? The works are prayer, reading, and teaching/testifying. This commentary on Driscoll and any other pastor who teaches that Christ is the answer, is the reason why people turn from God. Creating doubt in the minds of those who are on the fence of faith, is the reason why the world is in the state it is in spiritually. You are really confabulating a theory due to your dislike of Driscoll the teacher.

[run4everon]

sweetie, did you get burned by Driscoll? cause you are grasping at straws, and honestly, you know it.